tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post5952489088857101949..comments2024-03-14T08:38:28.518-04:00Comments on J.M. DeMatteis's CREATION POINT: CONSTANTINE RETURNSUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger89125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-20899456737396194992017-11-16T17:32:50.302-05:002017-11-16T17:32:50.302-05:00"Really. When have you ever seen a thought bu..."Really. When have you ever seen a thought bubble popping out of someone's head? Totally unrealistic!"<br /><br />Apparently, you have never been to Del Ray at night.<br /><br />Even so... still more realistic than a thinking politician.<br /><br />JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-51133424842437234822017-11-16T11:06:29.935-05:002017-11-16T11:06:29.935-05:00KRAVEN'S ABSOLUTE NO-KIDDING, WE SWEAR!, LAST ...KRAVEN'S ABSOLUTE NO-KIDDING, WE SWEAR!, LAST HUNT!<br /><br />I had fun with that Kaine-Kraven story. Glad you enjoyed it. I'd love to see those stories and SOUL OF THE HUNTER collected in one volume along with KLH.J.M. DeMatteishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293848326241642685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-64704060292972013892017-11-16T10:33:28.313-05:002017-11-16T10:33:28.313-05:00Speaking of Kraven, there's a mini-series titl...Speaking of Kraven, there's a mini-series titled DEADPOOL: BACK IN BLACK where Deadpool ends up with the symbiote. In the fourth issue, Kraven mistakenly believes Deadpool to be Spider-Man. Long story short, Deadpool finally convinces Kraven he's not Spidey, and suggests he try using a gun on him next time. <br /><br />I always find retcons like that fascinating. <br /><br />I recently re-read the backup stories you wrote for GRIM HUNT with him going up against Kaine and I hope everyone who loves KLH has read them as well. Brilliant way to flesh out Kraven's motivations going into KLH. <br /><br />Now we just need you to write a story where Kraven is killed once again--KRAVEN'S LAST LAST HUNT! :)<br /><br />(I think he's popping up in CAPTAIN AMERICA in January. I'm very interested to read that one.)<br /><br />--DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-69516469571358716042017-11-16T10:25:25.176-05:002017-11-16T10:25:25.176-05:00Really. When have you ever seen a thought bubble ...Really. When have you ever seen a thought bubble popping out of someone's head? Totally unrealistic!J.M. DeMatteishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293848326241642685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-76115617982371096622017-11-16T08:26:40.138-05:002017-11-16T08:26:40.138-05:00Hmmm.
I wonder why no thought balloons. Then aga...Hmmm.<br /><br />I wonder why no thought balloons. Then again, people in the real world tend to think less these days, and Marvel's watch word is 'realism.'<br /><br />Say... wasn't that around the time Cable news and social media were really taking off?<br /><br />It all makes perfect sense, there is suspension of disbelief, and then there is thinking politicians can think. <br /><br />I may be able to read about a guy who summons deities from other realities to bind people with crimson bands, or shiny space messiahs who defy world eating forces of sentient nature, because a blind girl was nice to him, but come on...I don't live in a fantasy world.<br /><br />JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-89166100656043782682017-11-15T17:21:30.144-05:002017-11-15T17:21:30.144-05:00This was back in...2005 maybe? 2006? Somewhere i...This was back in...2005 maybe? 2006? Somewhere in there.J.M. DeMatteishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293848326241642685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-53565926659861275952017-11-15T17:20:03.926-05:002017-11-15T17:20:03.926-05:00Oh, please. That story's been done to death. ...Oh, please. That story's been done to death. : )J.M. DeMatteishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293848326241642685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-56454842118631190262017-11-15T16:25:28.023-05:002017-11-15T16:25:28.023-05:00I really like the idea of using captions for the n...I really like the idea of using captions for the narrator and thought balloons for other characters. <br /><br />And now I want to see a JMD story about Kraven the Hunter going to the grocery store! Kraven has to wait in line too long, assumes that no mere mortal could plague him thus, then consumes coupons to ingest their spiritual essence and screams, "I am the express cashier!" at the top of his lungs. <br /><br />--DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-8459309973088008052017-11-15T16:08:18.493-05:002017-11-15T16:08:18.493-05:00Just out of curiosity, how many years ago?
I'...Just out of curiosity, how many years ago?<br /><br />I'm just curious as to when the trend began.<br /><br />I think that there is a feeling that captions are more "sophisticated."<br /><br />For all the good inspiration DKR and Watchmen did, I do sometimes wonder if it narrowed perceptions of what a good or smart comic can be, as well.<br /><br />JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-7311257158702941502017-11-15T10:17:59.306-05:002017-11-15T10:17:59.306-05:00A combo of captions and thought balloons? That...A combo of captions and thought balloons? That's a fascinating idea. Too bad thought balloons have fallen out of favor. <br /><br />I remember a few years back I was writing a book (I won't say what) and I decided to use word balloons instead of captions for characters' POV—and the editor changed 'em all to captions!J.M. DeMatteishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293848326241642685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-57661739825734505392017-11-15T10:15:42.759-05:002017-11-15T10:15:42.759-05:00Yes, a character's unique, internal POV done r...Yes, a character's unique, internal POV done right can make almost any story fascinating.J.M. DeMatteishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293848326241642685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-80012825357182061232017-11-15T08:56:54.273-05:002017-11-15T08:56:54.273-05:00Come to think of it, there are some very paint-by-...Come to think of it, there are some very paint-by-nmbers comics I have ridden, that could have been much more interesting if you could see in the characters head.<br /><br />It is a very unique thing in comics to see into characters heads.<br /><br />Even a story about going to the grocery store can be fascinating, if you make the person's mind an interesting place.<br /><br />It sort of makes me think of the Philip K. Dick game, though it is only sort of applicable.<br /><br />JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-85606807865324958572017-11-14T20:34:58.683-05:002017-11-14T20:34:58.683-05:00I always wonder why more origins don't use pas...I always wonder why more origins don't use past tense captions. It is a great way to get needed info out, and connect with the main character at the same time.<br /><br /><br />Something I wish would be interesting, is to use captions for the main character, and thought balloons for the others. It makes a statement about who is in control of the story, and invites comparisons between characters. <br /><br />And in the end, aren't all narrators unreliable?<br /><br />AS for the return of thought balloons... if only someone at on this site had a regular gig in the comic industry, and probably plenty more in the future (well until the industry collapses in a week), and could start that trend.<br /><br />I know, that whole thing is just nonsense.<br /><br />Jack Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-30847931701234450192017-11-14T14:16:32.013-05:002017-11-14T14:16:32.013-05:00Those unreliable narrators will try to get away wi...Those unreliable narrators will try to get away with murder if they can. Give 'em hell, JMD!<br /><br />And yes, that's the story I had in mind!<br /><br />--DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-734118137922946682017-11-14T12:39:21.350-05:002017-11-14T12:39:21.350-05:00Yes, the unreliable narrator is really a great too...Yes, the unreliable narrator is really a great tool. That said, sometimes as I write I don't even realize that the narrator is unreliable at first. I'm writing, believing everything he tells me and then all of a sudden I realize: Wait. I don't think this is really the way it happened!<br /><br />One of my best stories? Does it have a number in the title?J.M. DeMatteishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293848326241642685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-81681228324425314132017-11-14T09:19:21.842-05:002017-11-14T09:19:21.842-05:00Great points about the difference between present ...Great points about the difference between present and past tense captions. There is a lot less difference between a present tense caption and a thought balloon. <br /><br />And I like the comparison to a diary entry, that's exactly how it seems. <br /><br />I read a Mark Waid story recently with one of my favorite narrative tricks. The narrator began the story arc by proclaiming that one of the characters had died, and then the story took you to the point when it happened. The twist was that the narrator was lying about the character's death to protect him from the individuals who wanted to study him. I like narrative tricks like that. <br /><br />Without spoiling anything for those who haven't read it, one of your best stories has a similar twist! <br /><br />--David<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-15277823133290153572017-11-13T11:36:47.284-05:002017-11-13T11:36:47.284-05:00"POINTS of view" not "POSTS of view..."POINTS of view" not "POSTS of view"!!J.M. DeMatteishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293848326241642685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-16719221840669561782017-11-13T11:36:08.742-05:002017-11-13T11:36:08.742-05:00Very smart and insightful, David. Thanks for shar...Very smart and insightful, David. Thanks for sharing that.<br /><br />There's really a thin line between the thought balloon and the interior monologue (when the monologue is in present tense). The thought balloon somehow feels more immediate...as if it's happening in that exact instant. There's a hair of separation with the caption/interior monologue, even if it's actually happening in the moment. The monologue feels more like a diary entry, if you will; even if that entry is happening as the events are unfolding.<br /><br />And, of course, the interior monologue can be placed anywhere in time. I'm a big fan of the "after the fact" narrator. We're watching events unfold in the pictures, but the narrator is looking back with hindsight (and his/her own prejudices and jaundiced posts of view). Makes for a very interesting way to tell a story. And one that's pretty specific to comics. You can't really fill a movie with voice-over. And a novel doesn't have the same visual impact.<br /><br />Lots of ways to go at this, but that's my two cents for today!J.M. DeMatteishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293848326241642685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-17567101372481026612017-11-13T10:35:51.325-05:002017-11-13T10:35:51.325-05:00Wow, a lot of great stuff to dive into here.
I t...Wow, a lot of great stuff to dive into here. <br /><br />I think the thought balloon was largely pushed out of favor by interior monologues expressed in captions. <br /><br />The advantage of the captions is laser-focus. Participants are often not simply expressing their immediate thoughts but organizing them to give meaning to their role in the story. We get more insight into Kraven this way than if he had simply thought to himself, "Spider-Man can't be a man! Yes, that's it, he's no simple man, he must be possessed by the Spider!" <br /><br />Captions also give the advantage of irony, as when Kraven resists the implications of his mother's insanity while descending into madness himself. The image of Kraven's final, desperate act contrasts with his own damaged perspective in which he pretends his choice(s) perfectly sane. <br /><br />Thought balloons have their own advantages though. For one thing, they tend to give us insight into characters that wouldn't normally warrant their own inner monologue. Thus we can get a supporting cast member expressing outer rage at Peter for missing out on some important obligation, while inwardly expressing their concern for him. We shouldn't reserve all insight for characters who are driving forces in the story. Outside observers are interesting, too. I loved it when some random guy would be thinking, "Look, it's Spider-Man! I'll never believe all that stuff Jameson prints about him. Not since he saved my brother from the Scorpion last year..."<br /><br />Thought balloons also give us the opportunity to see unfiltered thoughts. In KLH, Kraven only gives the reader what he wants them to see. We as readers pick up on the subtext that maybe he's not as confident in himself as he appears and Kraven is falling apart even as he thinks he's finally whole. <br /><br />And I think that's the right choice for the story. But in an alternate universe, I can conceive a story where Kraven is yelling at Spider-Man about how they thought his mother was insane, but inwardly he's thinking, "But were they right? And if so, am I destined to inherit her madness a hundredfold?" Again, I don't think that would have been the right choice for KLH, but there could be another story where that method would work better. <br /><br />So long story short, I'm a huge fan of the thought balloons and like to see them utilized where they work best. I think the most obvious consequence of them falling out of favor is losing insight into unfiltered thoughts and crowding out the man on the street's perspective. Sometimes you just want to see what Aunt May or Mary Jane or Robbie Robertson think about something without forcing them into the role of narrator. <br /><br />These things do move in cycles and I think the thought balloon will come back around. <br /><br />I do have another theory as to why they fell out of favor. I've noticed that a lot of comic writers who grew up in the Stan Lee era have said they initially struggled to find their own voice. They just couldn't help sounding like "Writer X channeling Stan Lee" in the beginning. So mixing up the format a bit was a great way for them to free themselves of any oppressive influence. <br /><br />I know when I wrote my first comic I made a conscious effort not to use internal monologues via caption or thought balloons. It wasn't that I had anything against those techniques--far from it! I just wanted to challenge myself to tell the story in a different way than the comic stories I was influenced by the most. <br /><br />--David<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-219031142330250512017-11-12T17:37:05.503-05:002017-11-12T17:37:05.503-05:00I'm not going to lie Dematteis, I really thoug...I'm not going to lie Dematteis, I really thought that would get your juices going.<br /><br />JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-87845428844953571912017-11-12T06:50:13.886-05:002017-11-12T06:50:13.886-05:00Well, the interior monologue isn't gone, it is...Well, the interior monologue isn't gone, it is just sort of being phased out.<br /><br />And thought balloons are still in there in Spider-man... the newspaper strip. <br /><br />Think about how many classic characters would seem like complete jerks, or whatever, if you couldn't see the conflict in there head. Spider-man was kind of an ass in teh early days. Hell, we would know nothing about Swamp Thing in the beginning, if not for thought balloons. He didn't speak for almost (if almost) all of Wein;s run.<br /><br />The immersion from thoughts can't be measured.<br /><br />Which brings me to another interesting point.<br /><br />I saw something talking about why movies int eh 70s became what they did, namely more dense. I believe the term they used was low concept, but a big part of it was denseness, like things added in backgrounds to symbolize. Think every theory about the Shinning and its "true " meaning you ever heard.<br /><br />In short, movies that are more about what it means.<br /><br />But it talked about this shift happening because of Baby Boomers. For many Baby Boomers, they were the first in their family to go to college, also the place that teaches you to dissect things. <br /><br />I don't think it is that far off from the truth. You went from going from mostly High school at most education to a large number of college grads, of course things will shift.<br /><br />But why? How? Does it mean older movies are dumber and lack depth? More straight forward?<br /><br />There are plenty of themes up for debate. How many different interpretations are there for Rosebud's meaning in Citizen Kane? It represents hid lost youth, it was when last he was happy, because he never stopped being that kid, it was the only thing he REALLY loved. They are all equally valid<br /><br />Casablana may have a straight forward theme, but the characters are complex.<br /><br />I may hate "It a wonderful life," but I can admit it leads to big questions about life and reflection.<br /><br />Even ideas like how to shoot things like film noir, were about creating a visceral and emotional reactions.<br /><br />It became about things to rewatch and ruminae on. secret clues. <br /><br />It was in short academic instead of intuitive.<br /><br />It is across all media. Even in literature, people like Dickens were more about immersion than clues and random symbolism you may or may not pick up on.<br /><br />I think Nick Spencer's Cap run is a perfect example of academic over immersion.<br /><br />Even a hypocrisy on style and where things come from. Film Noir, dissected in colleges came from pulps, the fore-bearer to comics.<br /><br />Even in style, Lawrence of Arabia is not as removed from Superhero epics many would like to believe.<br /><br />TV has teh same issues. Mad Men wAs about discussing what things meant, not about liking characters. Don was a tool from beginning to end.<br /><br />I think it says some stuff about us. The desire to be more academic than emotional. To distance ourselves from the messy ideas, while still sucking on the desire for community.<br /><br />I also think it says something about the fact about the fact that all the things coming up now, that movie intellectuals call bad are immersive.<br /><br />And certainly a contempt for types of source material. Even Lord of the Rings, has come on the fire be being frivolous escapism. You know, that meditation on A man's struggles with his time in World War I.<br /><br />JAckAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-47959877578756830382017-11-10T20:40:27.327-05:002017-11-10T20:40:27.327-05:00Well, I haven't abandoned the interior monolog...Well, I haven't abandoned the interior monologue, Jack. And I think the thought balloon is ready for a comeback!J.M. DeMatteishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293848326241642685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-79292483522584607812017-11-10T18:28:04.612-05:002017-11-10T18:28:04.612-05:00"I \can look back at a lot of my work—MOONSHA... "I \can look back at a lot of my work—MOONSHADOW, BROOKLYN DREAMS, ABADAZAD, perhaps even KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT—and say it's decompressed storytelling."<br /><br />No it isn't.<br /><br />Decompressed storyteling isn't taking your time with a story. It is... well, exactly what you wrote further down...<br /><br />"I also see a trend in recent years to take stories that could be told in a few months and literally drag them out over years."<br /><br />That is decompressed storytelling, at least in comics. And it is actually a bit different from the Clone Saga. Nearest I can tell the first person to use the style was Todd Mcfarlane when he got his own Spider-Man book back in 1990.<br /><br />It isn't about not always driving the plot, it is more about not being economical with space. <br /><br />Ann Nocenti said it best, that every page needs to move the plot forward, have good characterization, or have something really cool.<br /><br />Decompression it is just pulling further than it needs to be. I does not even necessarily mean it isn't good writing, just not very economical. <br /><br />Speaking of economical...<br /><br />I think that style actually did have its day, it kept peoplehanging on at a time when comics needed those hooks.<br /><br />However, with a complicated economy, lower wages, and rising comic prices. I don't think it is as easy to swing that.<br /><br />People tend to be more focused on value, which is a sliding scale for all people.<br /><br />Of course, that reminds me of another change in the language of comics, lack of subplots.<br /><br />In many comics subplots have been pushed back or abandoned. This used to be the best way to get people coming back.<br /><br />As for the interior monologues, I don't understand why it has gone away... except I do. I think a lot of this comes from movies and TV being bigger influences, and not superhero movies, just the genre in general. I think that is where most of this change in language comes from.<br /><br />However, the monolouge thing isa weird thing to abandon. Aside from the fun of delving into a character... it makes good sense. It is the quickest and best way to get a reader on the character's side. You could know them as fast as possible. It is good from both an artistic and economic standpoint, how often does that happen?<br /><br />JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-38031694353020336322017-11-10T12:49:01.065-05:002017-11-10T12:49:01.065-05:00Interesting thoughts, Jack. Decompression isn'...Interesting thoughts, Jack. Decompression isn't a bad thing. Like all approaches. it depends how it's done. I can look back at a lot of my work—MOONSHADOW, BROOKLYN DREAMS, ABADAZAD, perhaps even KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT—and say it's decompressed storytelling. Very interior, not driving the plot forward at a galloping pace. But it depends on how you use that decompression. I always tried to use it to get deeper into the characters, to bring more layers and levels to the stories. There are others who, as you point out, use decompression to just...pad out a story. To take 22 pages to present 8 pages worth of material. There are others who use it well.<br /><br />I think the interior monologues you miss are vitally important—whether in the form of captions or thought balloons. There wouldn't be a KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT without it. Mike Zeck hit all the broad visual and emotional beats of the scenes and that allowed me to use captions to go deeper and deeper into the characters' interior worlds.<br /><br />I also see a trend in recent years to take stories that could be told in a few months and literally drag them out over years. (Which—to prove that it's nothing new—is exactly what did in the Clone Saga in the end.)<br /><br />We could talk about this forever, but I'll stop here. Your turn!<br /><br />J.M. DeMatteishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293848326241642685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4193334913733210326.post-60937833203186836372017-11-10T06:45:16.706-05:002017-11-10T06:45:16.706-05:00The way the language of comic has changed is not ...The way the language of comic has changed is not necessarily obvious, or maybe completely so, it just depends on what you mean by noticing. <br /><br />In short, the largest part is a lack of kinetic energy in comics... or rather a scaling back.<br /><br />These are major parts of decompression. Now, some may think I mean action in comics, but I don't. <br /><br />Take something as basic as a conversation. Lets say Peter Parker and Joe Robertson have a conversation, not anything major, just some character building or Peter looking for work.<br /><br />In the older ways, you would use multiple angles, and character movements, and sizes. Now nothing over the top, a variation to keep the reader from getting lulled.<br /><br />Now however, it is more likely to have just large panels with ping ponging dialouge, or the same image repeating.<br /><br />Similar things happen with slowing stories. Whole pages dedicated to something slow, or a break.<br /><br /> And also how action ids presented. Larger panels on more pages.<br /><br />Covers have turned into pinups , opposed to potential scenes. A change that neither draws people in, or separates books as well.<br /><br />Then, there is the depletion of thoughts in comics. Not by writers (necessarily), but by characters. You no longer see thought captions as much... and even less often thought balloons. Essentially taking away something that comics had over every other visual medium. The abiliyty to see inside characters heads.<br /><br />I'll get into the character thing in after a response to this, because it is getting long.<br /><br />JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com