I also spoke with Jon Clarke of the Caffeinated Comics Podcast about Batman vs. Robin, my just-announced DC project Justice League: Gods and Monsters, Justice League 3001 and other fun things. You can hear that one right here. Enjoy!
Just for fun, here's the trailer for the upcoming Gods and Monsters animated film. The mini-series I'm co-writing with G & M mastermind Bruce Timm is a prequel to the movie. Both will be out this summer.
I will load these up into my mp3 player when I get home from work.ReplyDelete
Hope you enjoy 'em, Douglas.Delete
What a fun, funny, informative and just plain terrific 50 minutes the JLI podcast was - wonderful stuff and so great to hear you guys having such a blast.ReplyDelete
Man, it really got me wanting to dig my JL comics out, too!
(By the way, Maguire's voice always reminds me of someone else - if only I could place it! Ah well, one day it'll come to me!)
Glad you enjoyed it, Karlos. We had a blast doing it. When you figure out The Mystery of Kevin Maguire's Voice, let me know!Delete
I'd been waiting for that JLI podcast to show up online. That was a blast to listen to. It actually had me wishing that comic books came with creator "audio commentaries" as I could listen to you guys talk about JLI for days. Growing up I would pick up some other comic books here and there, but my comic reading universe revolved around JLI (the release of each new issue was as good as Christmas) - so I'm just realizing as I listen here that many of the characters that came through the book I ONLY know as your versions of those characters. Hawkman to me will always be that grumpy old nostalgic veteran in my mind. I never knew the "Ed Norton" origin of G'Nort, but wow - I can totally see that now (and how did the audience NOT spring into applause at the mention of his name!? ;) ). I do hope that the fates allow you and Kevin to work together on something again soon. Great to listen to both your thoughts here on that amazing book.ReplyDelete
Thanks so much, Drew. It was great fun recalling those days. And, yes, I'd LOVE to work with Kevin on just about anything. He's one of a kind!Delete
I just listened to the Caffeinated Comics Podcast - Superbuddies 3001? ;). I'm excited to see what you guys have planned for Justice League 3001. I've enjoyed it from the start, but man has it been a lot of fun for the past few issues in particular. I felt that way with Larfleeze as well. I enjoyed it from the start, but by the time it got into its last few issues I was really falling in love with that book and character.Delete
Sometimes, Drew, it takes a while to find a book...and then, once you do, you're off and running. We've got JL 3001 just where we want it now, in terms of characters and tone, and it's so much fun.Delete
Glad you enjoyed the podcast and I hope you like what's coming up in JL!
Really enjoyable interview with the Nerdist Writers Panel. I'm glad that some kind soul on the panel clarified the Ed Norton/Honeymooners link as I must admit that my first thought was the movie actor. Doh! Some interesting nuggets of info in there as well - having seen Kevin's version of the Silver Surfer in Defenders it's fun to think how things might have played out if he'd pencilledthe solo title.ReplyDelete
Glad you enjoyed it, Gary. Re: G'nort. It didn't even occur to me that people would think of that OTHER Ed Norton!Delete
As for Kevin and the Silver Surfer: I'd love to see him do a full-out Surfer story. In fact, I'd like to write it!
Here is a hard question.ReplyDelete
I ran across my copy of the Kraven's Last Hunt trade, this is an older copy with a forward by Stan Lee. He praises the story.
I remember when it was reissued, the new version had a forward by you talking about it, which I read at the store (don't tell the manager) and that you posted here.
If someone were at say a used bookstore and saw both, which would you rather they buy? Keep in mind I already have the trade and individual issues, so I'm not buying a new copy.
Tough one, your words or Stan's praise. Which do you prefer as the preamble. And don't cop out saying "it doesn't matter so long as its read and enjoyed," or something like that.
Not so tough: I'd prefer they had the version with my insights into the making of the story. I think it sheds light on what follows.Delete
So, Stan Lee's praise means nothing to you. Now that is hubris. Typical Dematteis.Delete
You amuse me, young man. You amuse me.Delete
How about this one, Dematteis?
works of graphic novels or comics that you think are great, but never really got any traction. The kind that a lucky minority who read it love, but not enough have. I'll allow over shadowed work, (like say an Eisner GN that was not one of the better knowns) but none of yours.
First thing that comes to mind is one of the early Epic comics: a wonderful series by David Michelinie and Brett Blevins called THE BOZZ CHRONICLES. It was one of the very best Epic books and you hear almost nothing about it.Delete
I've heard that it's being reprinted by Dover Publishing, so I hope BOZZ finds a new, and well-deserved, audience.
That seems to be the fate of a lot of Epic comics. Most kind of fell out of memory. A shame, there was a lot of good in that house.Delete
Do you realize that it has been almost a year since you met your hero face to face?
Yes, there was some great stuff at Epic. And it was such an exciting time for us, as creators, contributing to that line of books. And, of course, there was the late, great Archie Goodwin steering the ship.Delete
A year? Amazing. As my favorite Bob Dylan line says: "Time is a jet plane, it moves too fast."
You use that quote a lot. How about switching it up with another musician, or at least another quote. Maybe, "I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more."Delete
I think Epic may have done better if in it's twilight hours, it would have tried to advertise itself as "Marvel's Vertigo." I know it wasn't quite the same unifying vision, but it was close, and I would wager a good portion of those Epic readers became Vertigo ones.
Given the transient nature of life and the swift passage of the illusion we call time, there's hardly a week that goes by that I don't think of that Dylan quote.Delete
Re: Epic. By the time it reached its twilight, it really wasn't "Marvel's Vertigo." The early Epic line, though, provided a general blueprint for the Vertigo world. Which in no way takes away from Karen Berger's enormous achievement in putting together, and nurturing, an extraordinary imprint that really changed the comics landscape.
Well, go live near a farm and you can be reminded of that song all the time. Your mistake when it comes to the Dylan quote in the first place is caring about something. Slay that demon and the passage of time means nothing.Delete
Epic produced at least some good stuff until the end. I think I think Vertigo's rise and Epic's fall are the same thing, editors. No offense to Potts, but he was no Goodwin, and few are. He was probably one of the great comic writes, he was absolutely top 5 editors, and when he left Epic that was a big loss. With a project like that you need not a good editor, but a great one. I don't think people who don't deal with editors realize how important they are.
There's no debating that Archie was an amazing editor, but the changes at Epic weren't because of Carl (an excellent editor, and great guy, in his own right), it was the changing landscape at Marvel. I think that the original vision of the line was changing—I assume that pressure came from above, because of sales factors—even under Archie's watch. We were seeing Marvel characters in Epic books, licensed books, etc.Delete
But Archie and Carl both did their very best. I'm delighted to have worked with them both.
And, yes, an excellent editor is to be cherished. A not-so excellent editor is another thing entirely!
Well Dematteis, you were there so I'll take your word for it. However, I was not trying to point out a flaw with Potts, but rather praise Goodwin. He had far more years of experience and would know the ins and outs of the businesses better. I also think Goodwin had a specific goal in mind for what Epic should be.Delete
hat being said, it sounds like the real problem is that Marvel lacked the confidence DC had for Vertigo, or even that Marvel had in the early days of Epic. That is a shame, because I really do think Epic was a forebear to Vertigo, and that the two could have produced even more great works if they were in competition.
Vertigo is having its own growing pains these days. I don't know if it will end up being good or bad, but it. certainly isn't the Berger experience, which makes sense since the stepped down.
The only mainstream Marvel character I remember in Epic was the Silver Surfer, and I heard that was by Stan Lee's request.
By the by, did you finish Daredevil on Netflix. Personally it left me very hollow about comic adaptions. The show is objectively very good, and I understand that things have to change when adapted, but Daredevil torturing was a bridge to far. Look forward to your views.
Oh yeah, and about editors (hopefully my first post went through, or that opening will make no sense)...Delete
I think Comics lack a certain amount of strength from editors these days. By which I mean a lack of desire to stand up to popular talent.
Frank Miller and Alan Moore are two writers people have both been said to have "lost it" in recent years, but I don't think that is the problem. Whether MArvel, DC, or indie, I think the problem is that editors won't stand up to them. I get it, they are both creators who can bring in a lot of money, but when they don't do the work they are capable of because no one guides them when needed, the fans are who are really losing. Some ideas are bad, even the best creators have them, and when they get too used to getting there way they can't always see them.
I recall Epic doing a Wolverine-Havoc series, an Elektra series...and there may have been more. Quality projects, but a fundamental undoing of the original Epic vision (in my opinion, anyway).Delete
I watched the first couple of DAREDEVILS and thought they were incredibly well done, but I haven't been driven to go back and watch the rest.
I may have mentioned this another time, but my favorite TV comic book adaptations of the past year have been FLASH, I ZOMBIE and AGENT CARTER.
As noted, Jack, a good editor is an invaluable thing. And another issue is that you need editors who are capable of training the NEW editors coming in under them. Just giving someone the title of editor doesn't necessarily make them one.Delete
And, yes, we ALL need someone to say, "Hey, that's not working!" But it's got to be someone we trust and respect. That's the most important part.
Ah yes, I actually read both of those series. I had forgotten that they were Epic. Mostly because as you said they were well done, but didn't feel like an Epic story Wolverine and Havok was great, but felt a lot like what Claremont and Louise Simonson were doing anyway, which makes sense given she wrote this, right? And I was not hugely fond of Elektra Assasian,. but it was sort of on the bubble, the art felt very Epic if the story didn't. However i do remember an add for Moonshadow on one of those issues with Frank praising it. I do still stand by the fact that Stan's Silver Surfer story did feel very indie (which is sort of what Epic was aiming for). DC's larger stable of forgotten heroes made Vertigo a better place for mainstream superhero projects.Delete
Daredevil is worth watching to the end. It is brutal though, and while it would probably feel off to me normally, Matt Murdock doing it just was too much for me. It forced the sad realization that what ever Hollywood does is the way these characters will be viewed by most. And these giant switches in personality dictate the view, and ultimately very likely the comics. It kind of hurt. Enen though it was as I said a well done show.
I will say Ben Urich (one of may favorite charters ever) was done spot one. He and Wesley make the show for me, and are worth the price of admission alone.
re Editors: I think the mass turnover in the comic industry in the 90s broke that editor training cycle. I think editors are sort of like office managers, they are important to get the job done, but it is very dangerous when someone is promoted to it based off being god at their old job without considering their talents for the new one.
You need to trust the editor knows what they are doing and wants the best possible product. Cherry-picking editors is a luxury of established writers, when you start out you have who you have. I think sometimes writers in that position instead of looking for someone who is on a similar wavelength, instead go for one who will just of their head in agreement. 90% of work put out that people say that the writer "lost it" I see the potential, and I also see how an editor could have fixed it. Some of Frank Miller's later Batman work people criticize, probably could have been universally loved if Denny O'Neil (a Goodwin level editor in his own right) had been the guiding hand.
P.S. Now go watch Batman: Mask of the Phantasm.
When I started in the business, Jack, my philosophy was: "The editor is always right." I didn't have to agree with them. I was new, I had so much to learn, and whatever they asked of me would allow me to learn my craft and grow. And that's exactly how it worked.Delete
As time passed and I grew more confident in my work and myself, that changed. But I was never one for getting into fights with editors, I didn't see the point. Disagreements? Inevitable. But the creative push-pull can (almost) always be handled with grace.
And even after all these years, I don't usually have a choice about the editors I work with. I get an assignment, the editor is already in place. Of course, one you've established a good relationship with an editor you may cycle back together again and again to work on new projects.
It's a delicate, but rewarding, dance.
That is where our jobs differ, in mine you aren't considered part of the club until you've argued with an editor. Of course, there is a right way and a wrong way to do it.Delete
I still think that letting Jack Kirby edit his own work is what ultimately led to the fall of the Fourth World. I wonder if when he returned to Marvel he had a healthier respect for the job.
I also wonder if Epic had come along earlier, could Steve Gerber/Howard the Duck been saved.
I think the NEW GODS material was so idiosyncratic, so specifically Jack Kirby, that outside editorial input would have lessened it. I think the saga could have been shaped in a way to make it more commercial, for sure, but something vital would have been lost. Sometimes the creator needs to be left alone, even if the result may not be commercially viable. And, really, considering how long those stories and characters have lived, and what an impact they left on the industry, they proved themselves on all fronts in the end.Delete
Yeah, HOWARD THE DUCK was an Epic comic before Epic comics...so maybe it would have worked there. But considering the fate of VOID INDIGO, I don't know...
I don;'t mean commercially. I couldn't care less about commercially. The Fourth World, more New Gods than the other two, Was at points disorganized, disjointed, and somewhat oddly paced at times. I love the New Gods, and Mr. Miracle, and especially the Forever People, but to be honest, if I hadn't read those as reprint in binge stints, If I had to read them issue to issue, month to month, I might not be a fan. This critique is not about commercial viability, its about understanding how to make it fit to print in the best possible way.Delete
Jack Kirby is one of the great figures in comics, but that does not mean he was infallible. His "can do anything" view is one of the myths of comics that doesn't track. Sort of Like saying Siegel and Shuster got screwed over, it isn't true. I actually like Kirby's return to Marvel stuff, Devil Dinosaur, 2001, Machine Man, and the Eternals range from awe-inspiring to just plain fun.
However, that era also had what I consider Kirby's Waterloo, his solo Captain America run, which I believe is another that he also edited himself if I remember. It was a struggle for me to get through it. MArvel even had to make up letters to praise this series, because of the lack of positive response they got... or so the stories go.
Jack Kirby was absolutely one of the giants of the medium and created a lot of great work that will last for ages. But on the page and in the world at large he made some missteps, some dumb moves, and yes some of those were even made during the good stuff.
As for Epic, to be fair, I think Gerber's Man-Thing, his Defenders run, almost everything Starlin did in the 70s, Englehart's Dr. Strange, even his Defenders and Captain America were all Epic before Epic... even Lee's Silver Surfer when you look at it in comparison to his other work fits that bill. I think that These, along with others laid the ground work for Epic and even Vertigo later. I think the segmentation of the comics into things like Vertigo or Epic, or indie and mainstream, is a serious drag for the industry. What's done is done though I guess.
Jack, I watched Daredevil up until the 12th episode. You've seen them all so you know how that one ended. That, to me was one of the most reprehensible things Marvel has done in the Cinematic Universe to date. I did not finish the series and will not be watching season 2. I have zero investment in the Jessica Jones Character so I will probably like that one. Power Man and Iron Fist? They are going to screw that up so bad.Delete
Not a lot of time here in Houston for lengthy replies, Jack, but I totally get what you're saying. In the case of the Fourth World, though, I think the imperfections and bumps were part of what made it great. It was so deeply personal and idiosyncratic that any editorial tampering might have killed it.Delete
Re: the later Marvel work (for the record, I enjoyed Jack's CAP run and loved THE ETERNALS), I agree that a really good editor could have helped shape the material. But I wonder who that editor might have been. You would have needed someone with lots of experience who Jack would have respected. Maybe Archie Goodwin...?
I figured there was a chance the comic show involved. Honestly, I just expected a response acknowledging and saying, "more to come" or something. I do appreciate the time you took to respond though.Delete
Unfortunately I have mor to say than time so, uh... more to come...
I will say though, I don't know much about Kirby's relationship with Goodwin or if they even had one, but from everything I heard Goodwin was the most affable guy you would ever want to meet. I can't imagine there would be much strife.
I will say, as much as I praised Goodwin's editing, I will always remember him for his stories in CREEPY. If you haven't read them, seek them out.
Also, I looked up this show and saw Stan Lee would be there. Tell him to do a story for Silver Surfer's 5th anniversary next year. Do it. Before you say, "I'm not going to talk to, or even see him!" Those are details and excuses Dematteis, they wiull get you nowhere fast.
At least tell Peter David. The power of Kvetching is strong!
Or don't, whatever, your life.
The lines for Stan are so long, the crowds around him so thick, that I could barely glimpse him across the hall. That said, a 50th Anniversary Surfer story is a great idea.Delete
I would love a 50th anniversary Surfer series. If there is any hope for a future Lee project, its that. Especially a full length one. It was Stan's favorite character to write, and this is the first decade he hasn't written a story for him.Delete
Those lines... drag, I gt it, but drag. That's why I gave the kvetching idea. Its an older version of a letter writing campaign.You're in the business. make it happen Dematteis.
Unfortunately, when it comes to Kirby's editor, Stan would be the best person. As much as Kirby at that point probably wouldn't like top admit it, he understood Jack's style and could focus it.
I think part of why the Eternals got almost double the amount of issues the New Gods did was because Marvel fans at the time were used to cosmic stories, and would be less turned off by some of the odder ideas, ironic since that style was forged largely by Starlin being inspired by the fourth world. Kirby just had the bad luck of launching it towards the collapse of the sub-genre, leading to just plain less readership.
I always wondered if the Lee-Kirby breakdown was partially do to Kirby moving west. Its a lot easier to take your editor's corrections personally the more removed you are from them.
As for the Fourth World and its oddities in story telling? I don't think they hurt readership. I remember reading them at 17 or 18 and being blown away. I think the issue is in those who picked up say, issue 7 for the first time. Yes the pacing takes some getting used to, and Kirby always had a bit of a tin ear for dialogue, but is sort of works in context... so long as you start from the beginning.
Stan Lee has said any issue has the potential to be someone's first. The Fourth World didn't understand that. Kirby would take 3 pages to finish a story from the previous comic. I would imagine it would be a problem if you pick up that issue after people keep telling you how amazing it was. For all his positive pioneering, Kirby pioneered this problem that is becoming increasingly problematic. Just goes to show not every accurate prediction made by a visionary is good.
As for his solo Cap... I've read a lot of Kirby. I like a lot of it. I even really like Captain Victory (the sort of sequel to the New Gods), his Cap run is in my opinion... an this is the only Kirby work I EVER will say this about... almost irredeemably God awful. There are some interesting ideas I like, Mr. Buddha (though I'm not sure Jack knew much about the Buddha), a mad bomb, and Armin Zola, but it was a struggle to get through. It was rough. I get why Marvel had to make up letters praising it to print.
Though that is just MY opinion.
An the Eternals was great (and not just an attempt to do the New Gods again as some claim) and no one else ever really knew how to handle them.
Well, when you consider ALL the Fourth World titles together, Jack, they had many more issues than ETERNALS. But I loved 'em all.Delete
As for CAP: Kirby was a human being and not everything he did was perfect. I sometimes come across Kirby fans who—perhaps in response to the inordinate amount of praise Stan has gotten—seem attached to the idea that Kirby could do no wrong. We all have hits, we all have clunkers.
But Jack's hits were on another plane entirely. And, for me at least, his clunkers were always interesting in some way.
And, yeah, I liked Mr. Buddha. I even used him in a CAP annual!
I know you did, late 40s Cap had him grab Cap's from across the timestream. A part of me hates myself for knowing that off hand.Delete
Just to be clear, I love the Fourth World and Jack Kirby. I actually own a copy of the album, "Requiem for Jack Kirby"... true story. And I have a lot of issues with the way DC handled the Fourth World, both then and since.
Darkseid had become little more than the biggest JLA villain, and the New Gods themselves an after thought. It seems very out of place, and very much a waste.
In terms of the past, I feel there was not as much support that could be given, and as soon as sales were not what they hoped they pulled the plug. There seems to have been little attempt to guide or steer Kirby.
I do think the Fourth World was doomed to fail, but that has more to do with the attitudes and mindsets of the 70s, how they would play out, and that it would take a little while to get back to wanting the grandiose scale epics. Though I bet DC was kicking themselves for the New Gods treatment when Star Wars came around.
I'm even one of the five people on Earth who likes the Forever People the most of all the Fourth World projects. And as we talk about this I have quite the desire to go back and reread the Fourth World, starting with the original New Gods and ending with Starlin's Death of the New Gods, filling in needed issues as I go.
Jack Kirby was great, I even love Captain Victory (intended to be Orion's son) and Devil Dinosaur.
I do have to agree with John Byrne though. In know some of his views are a tad, let's say... kooky. but I think this one is right. I don't have the exact quote in front of me, but it was along the lines that you would think it was impossible to over praise JAck Kirby, but it happens because people forget that there were others part of that revolution.
I will say that too often Kirby's imagination is praised, because it was his ability to spin a good yarn that really mattered. He had a great imagination, but if he couldn't form it into a story, it really didn't matter, did it?
One thing I appreciate more and more as years go on is that it could never be a movie. At least not a live action one. I would love a Fourth World Project by Bruce Timm. It seems the Fourth World is positively comics, as it should be.
An animated NEW GODS movie would be amazing, wouldn't it?Delete
I, too, love FOREVER PEOPLE. My absolute favorite of all the Fourth World titles. But I suspect you knew that.
Yes, Jack was an incredible storyteller.Every artist working in mainstream comics should study his layouts. Back in the day, Jim Shooter used to give every aspiring artist who walked in his office a copy of a Kirby Cap reprint as a kind of Comic Book Storytelling Guide.
I bought the NEW GODS hardcover reprints a few years back and reread the whole saga. Better than ever, in my opinion.
Yes, I am an incredible storyteller, but I don't know why you bring it up in talks about Jim Shooter and Kirby.Delete
I suppose you and I have to now find the other 3 fans of Big Bear, Black Vykin, Mark Moorider, Beautiful Dreamer, and Serifan.
I have the black and white ones. The ones that are not black and white in the way of Marvel's Essentials, but in shades of grey instead of 4 color. Reading the New Gods in that format gave a very different impression of the tales than the 80s reprint series.
"An animated NEW GODS movie would be amazing, wouldn't it?"
No it wouldn't. There is too much to be packed into one movie, or even a trilogy. Ideally it would be a television show, with an intended ending. a few made for TV animated movies, and maybe some online exclusive material just to really expand things. Bruce Timm is the best choice I can think of for the project. The would be in finding a way to get Mr. Miracle and the Forever People to have their stories.
There's a sideways tribute to the Forever People in my upcoming JUSTICE LEAGUE: GODS AND MONSTERS mini-series (based on the upcoming movie from Bruce Timm and Alan Burnett). You'll see what I mean when the series comes out.Delete
As for animated NEW GODS: Let's start with one movie (which I'll happily write!) and see where it goes from there.
I'm not usually a big reader of comics tied into other media projects.Delete
Okay Dematteis, sell me on it. I don't think you could condense it into one movie, one TV season and see where that is going would be rough. Convince me it could work. I'd like to think it possible, but I just can't see it.
You better get cracking though, because I]'m pretty sure that the influx of comic-related property is not far from taking a big 180.
Well, GODS AND MONSTERS stands on its own. It takes place before the movie and you can just step in and enjoy it for what it is.Delete
As for NEW GODS: I think a series of animated movies would work fine. But then a kind of animated GAME OF THRONES, a massive story told over multiple seasons, would be fun, too.
Always a fan of New Gods. Looking forward to The Justice League mini series as well. I know I'll watch the movie as all of DCs animated films. They are so good. And count me in as one of the three fans of Big Bear, Black Vykin, Mark Moorider, Beautiful Dreamer, and Serifan.Delete
I guess with three of us we can officially open the first annual meeting of the Forever People Appreciation Society!Delete
Will there be a secret handshake? That would be cool.Delete
We all wiggle our fingers under our chins and shout, "Taaru!"Delete
Uh... I said there were five, we still need to find the other two.Delete
The problem with a series of movies is interesting. The first question is, are you doing all the fourth world or just Orion's tales?
Having all three build it up way to fast. The problem with just doing Orion makes things too small. If nothing else you will have a problem of "The Pact." The question comes up with that story is what happened to the other kid? If you explain too much people will want to see it, and there we go with building up too much material.
All three books in a movie would be too cluttered, and even focusing on one of the three comics would take more movies than one. However, you still have to make that first movie to be complete, to sell the idea in the first place.
I don't claim to understand Kirby, but I do think he himself realized the problem. There is a reason why you essentially had a fourth world book a week, always stoking the flames.
As much as I complain about the constant intertwined episodes of TV shows no... and I do hate it's dominance... The Fourth World was made for this mentality.
Well, then, we have no choice but to do this as an ongoing HBO series ala GAME OF THRONES. We can take five, six, seven years to tell the entire saga.Delete
Actually, an adult-oriented animated TV show like this would be pretty cool. Although, given special effects and such, it could be done live action, as well.
Live action couldn't even get Daredevil right (seriously, Daredevil Does. Not. Torture.) I'm not sure Orion coming off as real and well adapted is something to risk. I maintain live action would not work. Special effects are not the only issue it had.Delete
Moreover, I'm not sure and adaption of any kind should be done. I don't think any comic needs to be adapted at all. However, I feel Kirby could not work in any other medium. People always ask, "what would comics be without Jack Kirby/" But what would Jack Kirby be without comics." He was in the right medium.
Of course. an adult animated show... well, wrong country. But as I said, would not be surprised if Superheroes time in the light is ending. light being larger spotlight.
Sounds like something to pitch to Netflix. They would love to have something epic to challenge HBO and their Game of Thrones.Delete
Okay, Douglas: it's up to you now. Get on it! : )Delete
And I think that pretty much wraps up this NEW GODS conversation for now.
Of you don't mind Demattteis, I think I have a better ending to the Fourth World conversation.... a little said about the victims.Delete
First off is the New Gods themselves. Darkseid has become an ultimate villain of the Justice League, little more than a space conqueror, with very little mention of the rest of the Fourth World, and if they do enter the picture usually it is MR. Miracle in a role of c-list superhero, or Orion as a battle-craving nutjob, no longer a sort of cosmic Conan, but a space Punisher.
Then there are the creators who followed Kirby. Hardcore fans of the New Gods look down on most of it, saying it isn't what i should be, just because it isn't Kirby. Only Simonson gets a pass. MArk Evanier, who was friends with and learned under Kirby, may be the worst example of it. With his connections to the creator, who was still alive at the time, my guess is that it was not too far a cry from what Jack wanted. But almost everyone, from Starlin to Byrne to Pollak to Dematteis as been overly scrutinized by fans. It is not that all are perfect, but not being JAck Kirby is not a sin.
Finally there is Kirby himself. Despite not being a commercial success, New Gods seem to be what most people think of when they here Kirby's name, which led to disaster in later years. When he returned his new creations seemed a disappointment to many, and had people saying that Eternals was just him trying to do a less good New Gods.
The characters don't deserve that fate, the later creators don't deserve to be crucified for no reason, and while Kirby did some real jackass stuff, he did not deserve to have that happen to him or his work.
There, a period on the conversation...after you have your say of course.
P.S. You mentioned you had the Fourth World Omnibi, I have a question. In the reprint series from the the 80s they have the lead in to Hunger dogs, including one panel implying it takes place directly after the series, how do they reconcile this with the Mr. Miracle issues that went past New Gods run?
I accept the period, Jack. As for the Omnibus collections: I don't have 'em in front of me, but my memory is they simply printed the stories in the order they were published. No special explanations (beyond what may be mentioned in the introductions; Evanier got into the history of the projects pretty deeply).Delete
Just something to make your day; http://penguincomicsnet.blogspot.com/2015/05/this-would-have-to-make-jm-dematteis.htmlReplyDelete
That's FANTASTIC, Douglas! Thanks for sending that along!Delete
So, I listened to the podcast from The Nerdist. I haven't figured out how to download the other one yet. Great podcast! Funny thing; There's an actor Brian Quinn who does a podcast and has a TV show, Impractical Jokers. Kevin sounds just like him! Made me laugh. I did think it odd that the last question you guys answered got cut. Not the answer, just the question. weird. Anyway, great podcast.ReplyDelete
The question is: Have you ever seen Kevin Maguire and Brian Quinn in the same place at the same time? Maybe they really ARE the same person.Delete
Glad you enjoyed the podcast. I think you can tell that we all had a good time. Don't know what happened to that last question, though...
JL3K1 teaser story was great! Love the glasses bit, and the character dynamics are, as always, interesting and fun.ReplyDelete
Glad you enjoyed it, David. I have the most fun with stories like this, when the characters are just sitting around being PEOPLE. The entire thing is driven by their personalities.Delete
I enjoyed it too, can't wait the next issue !Delete
Poor Guy Gardner ! Bwah-ha-ha ! But we all think he deserve that fate ! :'D
I hope we'll see more of Blue and Gold too ! :)
You'll absolutely see more of Blue and Gold. JL3001 #3 (I think) will spotlight them and their new team. Yes, it's true: the Super Buddies are back! But don't tell anyone!Delete
This is just perfect ! :DDelete
Thank you for the answer ! :)
You're welcome, Frey!Delete
Just read the sneak peek at JL3001 #1, and loved it - wonderful stuff, Mr D!ReplyDelete
Can't wait to get my mitts on it!
Thanks, Karlos! Wonderfully weird things ahead for JL 3001 and I hope you enjoy what we've got planned. It's a book where I just get to relax and let my inner lunatic shine.Delete
So, question; Why would they think it would be necessary to have a novelization of Kraven's Last Hunt? And, in addition to that, why not let you write it. You wrote it the first time. Seems you would have been best suited for the job. Sometimes, comic book publishers make me a little crazy. Just a little.ReplyDelete
It's no more, or less, necessary than a KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT movie would be, Douglas. It's a way to take the story, tilt it, look at it from another perspective and, perhaps, bring in a new audience.Delete
As for me writing it: I was asked to, even signed the contracts, but it turned out my schedule was too tight for me to do it and I had to walk away. So don't think unkind thoughts about Marvel: they asked!
At least they asked. That is the important part. I would, actually, love to see a Kraven's Last Hunt film as long as they could get someone like David Cronenberg or David Lynch to direct it. That would be very cool!ReplyDelete
David Lynch doing KLH? Now THAT'S an idea!Delete
And, if I can't have that, can Guillermo Del Toro directed a Moonshadow movie for me? That would be Epic (Pun intended.)ReplyDelete
If I can't have Terry Gilliam, I'll happily take Del Toro!Delete
I never even considered Gilliam! I want to change my vote!ReplyDelete
I just read #14 of JL3000... Are they Ralph, Max, Oberon and Sue in the picture? http://ralphdibnytheworld-famouselongatedman.blogspot.mx/2015/06/if-im-not-mistaken-ralph-and-sue-lived.htmlReplyDelete
Because that would confirm that Identity Crisis, Countdown and 52 didn't happen on Earth-Bwah-Ha-Ha. I also get the impression that Ice left Super Buddies after Ted and Michael disappeared.
For our perspective ("our" being the JL 3K1 creative team), Rafa, the last continuity that counted was I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT THE JUSTICE LEAGUE. Anything that happened after that, didn't happen in our universe.Delete
Can I quote that for my blog?
By the way, if I'm not missing any, I believe you just created the 7th birthday mystery of Ralph (just counting the published or referenced stories). Since Ted and Michael disappeared during Ralph's birthday, and they were never found, we can assume he spend the rest of his life trying to find them. I'd even assume that even "Ralphina" kept trying to solve the mystery (c'mon, we all know she's going to be a detective like her old man).
I'd also think that their disappearance is part of what made Ice leave the team.
I don't know anything about that birthday party and, since it wasn't in one of our stories, it's outside our continuity. Unless we ever decide to useDelete
it! : )
The surprise birthday party I mean is in one of your stores; it is the one Ted mentions in Justice League 3000 #12, page 3, panel 3.Delete
Ted said a surprise party for Ralph (and Max yelling) is the last thing he remembers before waking up in the future.
The part I'm just speculating about is that, if they went missing during a surprise birthday party for Ralph, it's very likely that, at first, he thought that was one of the birthday mysteries Sue always prepares for him (or maybe he realized it was a real mystery from the start).
It's also likely that the disappearance of Blue Beetle and Booster Gold is the only mystery Ralph never solved (since they were not found until the year 3000).
I'm just guessing what happened at the Super Buddies headquarters (hard to say that without laughing a bit) after the two idiots went missing, but I think it's possible to read it between the lines.
Oh! NOW I know what you were referring to. I thought you meant some story that took place after we stopped writing JLI.Delete
Maybe we'll get to do a flashback one day and see what went on at that party...and what, exactly, happened to Beetle and Booster!
In my mind, I made too much on the fact that they disappeared during one of Ralph's birthdays, which always involves a mystery, most of them set by Sue (here is a list of all 7 birthday mysteries: http://ralphdibnytheworld-famouselongatedman.blogspot.mx/2015/05/the-birthday-mysteries-of-ralph.html). Ted and Michael disappearing at that particular date pretty much sets everything for a flashback story about Max, Ralph, Sue, L-Ron and whoever was still with the Super Buddies at the time.
I think the only time Ralph got to do the detective thing while with the JLI / Super Buddies was that story of Quarterly #6. He solved the mystery of Edgar Allan Poe's death, but the disappearance of the two biggest idiots of the Justice League might be his white whale.
And here is another thing I just remembered: In this continuity, Maxwell is still a cyborg, which means he might be alive, running some corner of the universe. Maybe he Manga Khan's business partner.
Have you published anything about how you guys came up with the idea of JL3000? It's an utterly fresh spin of Super Buddies and the DCU in general. I'd love to see the two stories as a movie.
The basic idea for JL 3000 came from the brilliant Mr. Giffen. Then I came on board and added my two cents.Delete
You'll see a little Ralph and Sue easter egg in JL 3001 #3. Keep your eyes peeled!
A JL 3000 movie? Sounds like a good idea t me. I know that there was almost a JLI animated series and there's been talk of a Super Buddies show, too. But neither have turned into anything real. Maybe one day!
BTW, I'm starting to feel like Superman has Guy Gardner genes and Wonder Woman has some of Big Barda. I don't know about Batman and Green Lantern.ReplyDelete
Well, now that Guy Gardner is back (in JL 3001), it's going to be interesting to pit two arrogant butt-heads against each other.Delete
3001!! That's why there was no #16 in my online store!!Delete
I was afraid it went on hiatus or something.
I already placed my order!
Is it weird that I think Gal Gardner is a hot comic book character?Delete
Thanks! I think you'll enjoy it!Delete
Re: Guy. We've got a very interesting journey planned for our Green Lantern.Delete
Is there going to be a Gods and Monsters TPB with all the comics?ReplyDelete
Btw, I totally feel the same about child sidekicks. I often imagine "the perfect DC reboot", starting it from the first year of Batman and Superman and telling it on real time until the next reboot, 25 years later (so that they retire around age 50). In that scenario, I think Dick, with 12 years of age, could debut on year two, but wear the Robin uniform for the first time on year 7 as some sort of low risk intern and become a full superhero on year 9, and finally becoming Nightwing on year 15, when he is 25 years old.
I agree that with Damian, Morrison figured out a decent reason to have a 12 years old Robin.
-Rafa (but forgot to switch accounts).
I like your "perfect reboot" idea, Rafa.Delete
And I'm sure there will be a GODS AND MONSTERS TPB although I don't know when it will be released. Print versions will be coming out in late July then all through August. So maybe a collection in the fall?
I hate the waiting, put it feels so good to have a TPB in my hands and it looks so good on a shelve!Delete
I love outlining timelines, making plot synopsis and making character profiles (remember the ones I did at http://ralphdibnytheworld-famouselongatedman.blogspot.mx/2012/07/know-your-super-buddy.html ?), I love continuity and doing character designs... but I just can't make stories happen. Is it possible to have an editor, publisher or producer vocation without really being a full writer or artist? I think Waid was an editor first.
Yes. There have been many editors who haven't been writers or artists themselves; but they understand the art and craft of writing and have a unique, and incredibly valuable, skill set.Delete
I don't think Karen Berger, one of the most influential editors of the past thirty years, has ever written a comic book. But she had a background in journalism and, more important, a personal vision bonded to a deep understanding of what makes a great story.
Julie Schwartz, one of the most influential editors in the history of comics, wasn't a writer or artist. But his impact on the business was incalculable.
And those are just two examples.
But I guess those jobs are incredibly tough to get.Delete
I started to admire Julie as I realised a lot of what I like about the silver age was his doing. I often wonder if characters like Barry Allen, the Rogues, Elongated Man or Hal Jordan were actually his brainchildren and he should also be credited as creator. He seems to me like the Stan Lee of DC. I'd love to talk to Murphy or any of the surviving guys to find out about the creative process.
'84-'92 are to me the best years of DC in terms of storytelling. Save Barry, DC had all its grat properties alive and hired the best writers. For a long while, in my mind, I credited Giordano for Karen's accomplishments. Or maybe it was both. Not sure what happened in '92, but it sure feels like a downturn.
How about Andy, is he like Karen or Julie?
Do you know what can I read to learn about editing creative stories and comics? I love Scott McCloud and Will Eisner's books. I do have a background in research papers, but I think my writing tends to be analytical and encyclopedical.
Andy Helfer was one of the best editors I've ever worked with. He was also a superb writer and did some memorable work for DC.Delete
I'd think a study of journalism and deep immersion in great literature would be a great help in preparing for a career in editorial. And, of course, on the job training as someone's assistant is invaluable.
Andy's name seems to be a guarantee of greatness, judging from the books he has edited. It's funny how books by the same editor have a similar vibe despite different creative teams.ReplyDelete
The only story he wrote that I have ever read is the one ib Batman: Black and White. It's pretty good. People recomend his Shadow stories a lot.
I guess editors have the same kind of knowlege as people with a Journalism or English Major. I think that's carrera en comunicaciones, literatura or periodismo here. I don't think I can do that, but maybe some masters degree.
Andy's SHADOW run was terrific.Delete
If becoming an editor is a true passion, you'll find a way to make it a reality.
Chase your dreams...and catch them!
I just finished Gods and Monsters and JL 3001 #1 and 2. Incredible reads both.ReplyDelete
The Batman mini was my favorite. I really liked how you went with Moxon, Chill and Thorne instead of the predictable Falcone and Maroni. That way it felt more like classic Batman.
JL 3001 was amazing. I am really invested in those characters. I love to see your classics back and I love the new clones. I suspect that the Maxwell we saw exists in the 3001 era, he is a cyborg, after all. He gained some weight.
So very glad you enjoyed them, Rafa. And glad you enjoyed the new take on Joe Chill: if we get to do more stories with these characters, you can bet I'll find a way to bring him back.Delete
No plans on bringing Max into 3001 (his cameo on the FAQ pages was just for fun), but...never say never, right?
With Batman being a murderer, I guess the Kingpin of Gotham or any antagonist would have to be either inmortal or have an excuse not to be murdered (Commissioner Cobblepot and Mayor Nygma?). Chill as an evil vampire sort of thing was brilliant.Delete
I'd love to see Max, Ralph, Sue, Karen, Oberon, G'Nort and Dmitri on the series. But then again, I also love the series because it's so well done, it has enough characters as it is (even if you guys are known for handling many characters at the same time) and it'd probably be better to leave some of the classics for later story arcs.
Out of all those characters, Max is the only one I can easily imagine somehow surviving into the future. Of couse, I suppose flashbacks, past-present storytelling and back to the future situations are conceivable for any character. I'm just way to excited about that book!
There are some big changes ahead for JL 3001, Rafa and big surprises for our characters. So glad you're enjoying the book and I hope the twists and turns of the coming months both please and interest you!Delete
You bet they will! I'm absolutely hooked on JL 3001!Delete
And for that I am very grateful!Delete