Saturday, March 16, 2013

WONDERFUL

WonderCon is just a couple of weeks away and I'm very much looking forward to heading out to Anaheim for what promises to be a fantastic three days.  If you're going to be there, stop by my table in Artist's Alley, say hello—and please bring any books you'd like to have signed.  I'm doing four panels over the course of the weekend—including a Spotlight Panel where I'll be interviewed by my son, Cody. (Now that should be interesting!)  If you'd like to complete programming schedule, click here and prepare to be mind-boggled.

My schedule is below.  The Artist's Alley times may shift a bit, but those panels are locked in.  Hope to see you there.  (Update:  I'll be sharing my table with my old friend Len Wein—so bring your stacks of Weinworks along with you, too.)  

Friday, March 29
Panel:  Iconic Characters: Keeping True to Origins While Inventing New Stories
3:00—4:00
Room 300AB
This panel will include Frank Cho, J.M. DeMatteis, Jim Lee, Doug Mahnke, Ann Nocenti and Dan Slott. Moderated by Mark Waid.

IDW Signing Booth 709 5:00—6:00
Saturday, March 30
Panel:  That 70’s Panel
11:30—12:30
Room 203
This panel will include Brent Anderson, J.M. DeMatteis, Len Wein and Marv Wolfman. Moderated by Mark Evanier.
Artist’s Alley Table AA-024 3:00—6:30
Sunday, March 31
Artist’s Alley Table AA-024 10:00—11:00

Panel:  Spotlight on J.M. DeMatteis
11:30—12:30
Room 208

Panel:  DC Entertainment All Access 
1:00—2:00
Room 300 AB

Artist’s Alley Table AA-024 3:00—4:30

82 comments:

  1. Only a couple of weeks? Then' I suppose it is only a few weeks until you play my, what you called "comic book parlor game," with what seems will be, Ann Nocenti (so underrated), Dan Slott, Mark Waid, Len Wein ,and Marv Wolfman. Then of course you will start your own company, using those models and and become wealthy beyond your wildest dreams, rule over all media, and I am just the jerk who's idea caused it and became a drunken, half insane, transient. I mean I know you guys won't disclose to the general public, but please at least tell them it was my idea, and post here who said what so i know who to curse as I drink my way into oblivion.

    I just wish I could go. The 70's panel looks awesome. Always a very underrated era. Such brilliant energy and ideas. mature ideas in mainstream comics.

    Also that spotlight looks interesting too. Of course I don't know if THAT guy deserves it. I can't even imagine what kind of wretch would waste his time gathering up that Dematteis guys thoughts. I mean seriously, who would stop someplace, even a non-place to hear or even read his thoughts. Still though I do love spotlights. They're bright.


    Sadly though, this is not in Detroit, or even a driving range of Detroit. too bad

    Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
    Jack

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    1. We'll meet up at a convention one of these days, Jack.

      I'll be sure to wear dark glasses so that darn spotlight doesn't hurt my eyes!

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    2. I see what you're saying Dematteis, we need to take it to whitey. hmm... okay I'm in.

      Seriously though, one can only hope that works out. One day... one day.

      Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
      Jack

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    3. LAst yeas (and this year) I actually suggested you to them as a possible candidate for guest. Motor City is not always the best at remembering the COMIC part of comic shoe.

      One of the weirdest con moments I remember is walking into a conversation Dwayne McDuffie was having with someone else about Dr. Who. We all enjoyed the new series, and this was before it really got its legs in the U.S. too. Such odd things can happen at comic shows.

      Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
      Jack

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    4. Maybe I'll make it out there one of these years, Jack. Thanks for thinking of me!

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    5. No problem. You, and some others, are who I really want to meet at these shows, but like many other shows I suspect, they seem to be moving further away from comics. If you want to get Star Trek weapons recreations, posters of Horror movies, or autographs from TV and Movie folk, that's cool, that's your thing. But, it's kind of stepping on my thinng WHICH STARTED THE WHOLE FAKAKTA THING!

      Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
      Jack

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    6. There are still some wonderfull comic-centric conventions out there, Jack. Baltimore Comic Con springs immediately to mind; and then there are smaller shows, like the Albany Comic Con in my neck of the woods. Creators and fans coming together for comics and nothing but comics!

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  2. Wow, you're in great company! Where to begin?

    If you get the chance, JMD, track down Ann Nocenti's "Mad Dog Ward" arc if you haven't already. It's criminally underrated, perhaps in part because it immediately followed KLH, and covered some of the same beats.

    Instead of being buried alive, Peter is committed to an insane asylum where only the head honcho knows he is really Spider-Man. Even Peter doesn't remember (he's too drugged). And just because when it rains it pours, the guy who knows who Spider-Man is...works for the Kingpin!

    There's something interesting about the unintentional tonal overlap. There was just something in the air...and it was one of the most exciting times to be a Spidey fan.

    As far as Mark Evanier goes, you should totally check out his two one-shots from the mid 90s: SERIO ARAGONES MASSACRES MARVEL and SERIO ARAGONES DESTROYS DC. (I might have butchered the titles.)

    You'd love them: one of the running bits in the DC comic is how 'grim and gritty' the universe has become. The villain turns out to be Johnny DC, the discarded corporate logo, who turns into a Rambo-esque tough guy to keep up with the times. And there's a hilarious bit where Batman brutally interrogates Gotham citizens about...a bat-like figure who's brutally interrogating Gotham citizens!

    --David

    Best,

    David

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    1. I've known Ann since she started at Marvel as an assistant editor (on my DEFENDERS, among other things) and watched her evolve into a top-notch writer. Saw her -- for the first time in years -- at the recent DC Summit and it was nice to catch up. Also nice to know she's back in comics.

      Growing up, my son was a total GROO fanatic. A few years back we were at a convention together and he got Sergio to do a Groo sketch on his laptop! Mark Evanier is one of the smartest, most interesting guys working in the field. I'm looking forward to our panel and seeing my dear old pal, and mentor, Len Wein...along with the great Marv Wolfman (if I haven't said it before, TOMB OF DRACULA remains one of the best series Marvel ever put out)...and Brent Anderson (who drew one of my first stories at Marvel, a Doc Strange fill-in, and recently did a few issues of PHANTOM STRANGER). It's going to be a fun time.

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    2. Ann was assistant editor on your Cap run, right? If memory serves, she showed up on-panel (or at least on the cover) for the Captain Bernie story.

      Very cool that your son got a Groo sketch! And yeah, mark Evanier is a genius. Love his GARFIELD stuff.

      Jack, you're right about the 70s. The medium was exploding with increasingly mature ideas, yet the fact that they weren't as fleshed out as, say, Moore's work in the 80s meant there was more room for readers to fill in the gaps.

      TOMB OF DRACULA is the embodiment of everything great about that era: there's this sense that no matter how weird and wonderful everything on the page is, there's even MORE going on IN THE SHADOWS.

      --David

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    3. No, David, Mike Carlin as assistant editor on CAP and showed up on the cover for the infamous Assistant Editor's Month. Ann worked on DEFENDERS. She was also my editor on the GREENBERG THE VAMPIRE graphic novel, one of my favorite projects ever.

      TOD was one of those books that kicked down the old structures and wrote its own rules.
      Wonderful stuff. I haven't read them in years, maybe it's time for me to take another look.

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    4. I've got somethings to say about the 70's pioneering and how it relates to Watchmen... but I will get to that later.


      Gotta keep 'em wanting more.


      Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
      Jack

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  3. Ah, my bad! (I remember Mike as the guy who killed Superman...)

    I'm pretty sure she showed up in the one of the comics I read that month, though I couldn't say which...

    TOD is available in some very nice TPB editions. The Omnibi are out of print and selling for ridiculous prices!

    --David

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    1. I'm sure Ann showed up in all the books she edited during Assistant Editor's month. I know we had a short intro featuring her in DEFENDERS that month.

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    2. She was in the Thing issue that month I believe.


      Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
      Jack

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  4. Yeah, I guess every assistant editor showed up that month didn't they? Up till that point, I didn't even know what an editor was, much less an assistant!

    As my final thought for the day, man, ya'll are gonna have some rock star energy on those stages. If there's any other musicians in the bunch, you guys might as well close out with a jam session!

    You've got to be like a kid waiting for Christmas at this point.

    --David

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    1. Along with meeting fans and seeing old friends, David, I'm especially looking forward to spending time with my son. Haven't seen him since Christmas!

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    2. So, yeah, it is like waiting for Christmas, isn't it?

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    3. Very cool!

      --David

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    4. Even better...now you'll have time to play with all the toys you got for Christmas together.

      --David

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  5. My son picked up a free edition of Len Wein's UNTOLD LEGEND OF THE BATMAN last night at an open house school function. Kind of unexpected and cool! Batman is plagued by a supervillain who steals his father's original Batman costume and leaves a note promising he will destroy the Batman. Then said villain blows up the Batmobile real good.

    As it turns out, the villain is BRUCE WAYNE--or at least a subconscious manifestation. He blames Batman for destroying all his personal relationships.

    It's a wacky, weird, and fun way to retell Batman's origin as he goes over the list of usual suspects.

    Best of all, it's reminscent of a more innocent time when a warehouse explosion can give Batman PARANOID SCHIZOPHRENIA without any of the "Batman is really as crazy as his rogues!" baggage. I love that Robin helps him through his crisis and there's not the slightest implication that things aren't 100% fixed when all is said and done.

    And not a dead sidekick in sight!

    Re-read TOMB OF DRACULA #32 last night. It's the one where Jonathan Harker awaits Dracula and meditates on the conflict that's sure to kill them both on this very night. And sweet heaven, it's such a wonderfully tense and poignant book!

    On a completely different note, have you heard about Bryan K Vaughn and Marcos Martin's new digital comic? It's DRM free, meaning you can download it in PDF or CBR format. And here's the best part: YOU CHOOSE THE PRICE.

    It's an interesting experiment and one I hope goes well for them. Because if it succeeds, it bodes well for projects that creators are really passionate about. And there's no middleman for them--they took all the risk, and they get 100% of the profits.

    I feel like a lot of the audience will donate more than standard price to support the project. There's a feeling of co-ownership, a deeper bond between creator and audience, much like the recent Kickstarter funding of a VERONICA MARS film. Now you can directly support the creators you love without worrying about the way the money is cut when all is said and done.

    Something to consider, JMD! Maybe in the future projects like ABADAZAD could move forward without the approval of guys in suits. Not that corporate involvement is necessarily a bad thing-but it certainly brings the risk of putting someone who doesn't 'get' a project in control of its lifespan.

    Out of curiosity, could you expand on something like SAVIOR 28's world this way? Or would you need to go through IDW?

    --David

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    1. I remember that LEGENDS story very well, David. It was one of the first—if not the first—mini-series ever done in comics. And it was a good one, too.

      I heard about the BKV project. It does indeed open up many fascinating new doors.

      As for SAVIOR 28: at the moment, we're partners with IDW, so we'd need to do any future projects with them.

      I'm really gonna have to go back and reread some TOMB OF DRACULA!

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    2. Yeah, I enjoyed it, and would have even more so if it had been in comic book format. This was a cheap black and white 'novel' edition, so a bit hard on the eyes! But Len did a great job of pulling together all the contradictory elements of Batman's origins up to that point, as well as throwing in a new mystery for readers to enjoy.

      And yep, you should totally revisit TOD. Has any comic book horror series before or since risen to that level?

      --David



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    3. I think TOD is the gold standard for Marvel-DC horror books. That said, I'm also very fond of the Wein-Wrightson SWAMP THING: a book that was eerie and poetic and deeply emotional. A classic.

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  6. Then clearly I need to give the Wein/Wrightson run a look.

    How did Wein feel about the idea that Swamp Thing was never really Alec Holland, but a swamp monster with his memories?

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    1. I'm pretty sure Len edited that story, so I think he was fine with it!

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    2. Ha! Well, I guess he was either cool with it or he learned it wasn't a good idea to delegate editing responsibilities to an intern when Alan Moore is at the helm! :)

      Kind of like editing your work, JMD. One never knows when he's going to go for a coffee break and BAM! Harry Osborn or Aunt May's dead.

      --David

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    3. I suspect Len knew EXACTLY what he was doing!

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  7. First, it would seem I was wrong about Ms. Nocenti, she isn't underrated. At least all the love here would suggest that. Her Daredevil run was a classic. And she almost got me to pick up green Arrow again, but DC's New 52 decision bugged me too much. close though.

    Now for the 70's v. Watchmen. First, background: The fact is I respect Watchmen more than I like it. Sure, it is an okay story, but I am not one of the ravenous fans for, the fact is I have read better stories. The thing that really bugs me about it is that people say it was a radical departure from the tradition "adolescent power fantasy" comic. I never really saw comics that way, but I do see Watchmen that way. In fact I would say Watch is the ultimate teenage power fantasy. Think about it who is the star, Rorschach, right. No, Nite Owl, the fat, dumpy guy no everyone sort of counts out. The guy who rolled over. The basic way most teenage males feel. Rorschach and Dr. Manhattan are two sides of fantasy. Rorschach is very much like Wolverine, short... angry... and doesn't take shit from anyone. He is uncompromising. What Every adolescent male wants to be. Dr. Manhattan, well, he is sort of like a quantum James Dean. Cool, calm, but still humanity is "TEARING HIM APART!" The snarky kid who sits in the back and rags on everyone because he can see what no one else can. Silk Spectre is the damaged girl who no one but the nerdy guy can really help get over her parental issues. And Ozymandias is the guy who is good at everything, that you just hate. I find the political thoughts but into honestly be a bit shallow, and more importantly the sex. Watchmen DID bring overt sex into comics. The way it did however is odd. The idea of the ultimate manifestation of feeling hopeless in the face of annihilation, just seems like a very teenage idea, as does all of the main characters having some kind of sexual issue. It just seems to me like where an adolescent mind would go. Watchmen I have always said, is the comic you write in your head when your bored, sitting in English class, when your 15 years old, and you hate the world. That is style based though, not quality. I can not stress that enough.

    To be continued... right now
    Jack

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  8. Man! This only serves to remind me that WonderCon is no longer in San Francisco - where I live!

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    1. Rumor is that it will eventually be heading back to SF, Dru. (At least I hope so: what a great city!) In the meantime...Anaheim's just a short plane ride way!

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    2. Of course you think San Fran is a great city Dematteis... you're a hippie. Yo (it's how the kids talk)

      Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
      Jack

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  9. Now that we have explanations of Watchmen underway let's explore the rest with just one more Watch-statement:

    What Watchmen really did, was cut out the comic so to speak. Most ideas in Watchmen had already popped up in comics, but because, despite teenage audiences being a larger fore and adults numbers growing, there where still comics being read by kids. Because of this comic companies had to keep a certain amount of "fantastic wonderment" in the comics despite there heavier ideas. Watchmen simply cut out that latter idea and filled it in with more heaviness.

    okay, now the 70's. With baby boomers now adults, and increasingly cynical adults who read Marvel in college to boot, they had grand designs. The fact is Steve Gerber's MAn-thing looks into a much more diverse set of real world issues. ANd it is also a far more personal take. I also think many of the characters feel more real than any in Watchmen. To me, the depth he can explore makes it a bit more adult. How does it affect people and to what degree and what have you.

    Englehart's Dr. Strange also takes a trip. Apposed to a look at the physical world we see man's spiritual journey. Of course this is done largely through metaphor. The fact is Religious, Atheist, or Agnostic, all adults go though this. And rarely does it go away easily. Even if one does not believe in a spirit, or soul per say, the still wrestle with the ideas it represents, and usually off and on for years. This is a genuinely large part of most people's lies. And to deal with it properly takes a bit of maturity.

    Englehart's Captain America comics, also have a touch of the adult. In fact many similar themes from it where touched on in Watchmen, it even had the same president being skewered... even if Watchmen's is a bit more off. Odd considering Englehart's was the more separated from reality. Also it would seem that the Cap comics of the 70's seemed to be wrestling with a large issue that still haunts us today, the desire one has to live up to America's ideals and love them in contrast to the often disappointing reality. It seems that many writers in this era dealt with that.

    Starlin's work reflected a more cynical view that was rising in the nation.Everything in his work seemed to be a least bad expression. In Warlock alone he explored the dark side of religion, and of government. Thanos himself was a thinly veiled embodiment of the constantly present specter of death that haunted the decade.

    Denny O'neil of course dealt with relevant social issues of the era. Moench also did this, albeit in a different way.

    Fact is, comic of the time acted as a sort of therapy session for its readers. But didn't Watchmen? Yes and no. I think the primary difference is that Watchmen had something to prove, Moore even (somewhat arrogantly) that he wanted to end the Superhero genre with this work. And while I'm sure some of this existed in the above stories, I think that was more about telling good stories, and the rest just came in. Allowing stories of the 70's to be a bit more organic, and most importantly, to go deeper into things and become more personal. To me this is not only a better read but a more mature take on storytelling.

    Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
    Jack

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    1. A pretty fascinating analysis, Jack. I'm just going to let that sink in and allow anyone else out there who'd like to to chime in and either agree or argue.

      One thing that becomes clear reading this is just how groundbreaking and memorable so many comics of the 1970's were. Those were the guys who kept me reading comics at a time when I otherwise might have left them behind.

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    2. I'll admit I'm no expert when it comes to the 70s, being a child of the 80s myself. In fact, the 70s was something of a 'lost decade' for me until I began exploring it via Marvel's "40 Years Of..." DVD Rom disc and TPBs. My Dad did stop reading comics in the 70s, so the stuff he recounted to me was always from the Lee/Ditko and Lee/Kirby days.

      So I have only a vague sense of the link between 70s comics and WATCHMEN, but it seems as though maybe the connective tissue is the idea that the most exciting stuff isn't really about superheroes doing superheroic stuff? The heroes are plagued by self-doubt that makes even the Lee days seem sunny by comparison, and it's the horror revivial and war comics that stand out. I really do get the feeling that mainstream superheroes were...adrift, so to speak.

      From what little I've read, the world's greatest comic magazine felt like it was running in circles. I mean, how many times could Reed Richards trick Galactus into not eating the Earth? Englehart's Cap run stands out, as the book was pretty directionless immediately preceding and following his stint. It wasn't until Byrne took over FF and Stern took over CAPTAIN AMERICA that things got back on track.

      70s Spidey was actually pretty good IMO, but a wild departure from Peter Parker's typically more grounded world once Conway brought in the clones.

      So I guess in summation, it seems like magic, horror, and satire were where it was really at.

      Not sure how sound my thoughts are, but that's what I've got at the moment.

      --David

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    3. For me, David, the 60's were defined by Lee-Kirby and the Marvel revolution: the new breed of superheroes. Most—not all—of the comics I loved in the 70's weren't really superhero stories at all: Kirby's Fourth World, the Thomas-Smith Conan series, Swamp Thing, Man-Thing, Tomb of Dracula, Master of Kung Fu, Howard the Duck. And superhero series like Gerber's Defenders were busting down barriers left and right; in fact you'd be hard-pressed to even give that book a super-hero label.

      There were still some super-hero classics, for sure—Englehart's BATMAN and JUSTICE LEAGUE come to mind, Len Wein's JLA, too—but, for the most part, it was new voices, new genres. Very exciting times.

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    4. Sounds exciting!

      Knowing what I do, I'd agreed with Jack that the 70s were more 'personal.' Stan Lee's superhero revolution is more of a philosophical abstract by comparison, whereas the 70s sees Captain America actually confront Richard Nixon, and Dr. Strange not only takes part in the creation of the universe, but Englehart impersonates a pastor to voice his support for the story arc lest Marvel get cold feet (or so I've heard).

      More than any other era, the 70s strike me as the spiritual father of works like SAVIOR 28, something very personal and fantastic. Though perhaps I should use the word specific. Even the 'broad strokes' stories are deeply personal to the author, but there's something unique (not better or worse) about ones that draw from political and philosophical specifities.

      Perhaps the embodiment of that 'personal voice' found in the 70s is the simple but alarming truth that Marvel has never replicated its success with horror and supernatural books. It's not because the genre died: DC proved that with SWAMP THING and the emergence of VERTIGO. And WALKING DEAD outsells a lot of mainstream books.

      But guys like Dr. Strange, Dracula and Morbius have never quite 'fit' in the Marvel Universe like they once did. At least that's the sense I get. But as a famous man once said, "Things ain't what they used to be--and probably never was!" :)

      --David

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    5. It also occurs to me that 70s are about tapped and untapped potential.

      The 70s strike me as the era when it was rapidly becoming clear that Kirby couldn't be contained (God knows Marvel and DC tried), but he could be held back. He throws out all these big, explosive ideas worthy of the Bible but every time he's hitting his stride there's something in his way. Maybe the best example is that he never had the opportunity to close out his FOURTH WORLD epic like he'd imagined.

      Kirby is the industry's equivalent of Moses: he leads his people to the promised land he never fully enjoys himself. Seems like many of the 80s creators were driven by the feeling that they were CONTINUING Kirby's work, both in terms of drawing inspiration from him but also in taking more control of creative properties.

      There's something tragically incomplete about Kirby's story until everyone else's story becomes, at least in some way, an extension of his.

      And I think you see this in the way the creative community rallied around Kirby in the 80s.

      Or maybe I'm just being dramatic!

      --David

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    6. And, of course, every generation of fans feels that way about the era that hooked them on comics!

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    7. And the Kirby-as-Moses narrative really works for me, David. So sad that, in his lifetime, he never fully grasped the impact of his work on the culture. He was a genius, a true giant of the industry, and my appreciation of Jack Kirby grows with every passing year.

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    8. "And, of course, every generation of fans feels that way about the era that hooked them on comics!"

      This is true! If I were writing Spidey, I'd certainly be compelled to pick up old threads where I left off in the 80s and 90s.

      Pete and MJ would renew their wedding vows with Ben Reilly officiating the ceremony. It would of course be crashed by Ned Leeds, who's finally re-revealed as the REAL REAL THIS TIME WE REALLY MEAN IT Hobgoblin. All this would happen to the tune of Huey Lewis and the News' "The Power of Love."

      And sweet, dearly departed Aunt May would walk from Heaven to Hell every day to serve those poor tortured souls wheatcakes and holy water. And to help Mephisto with his gambling problem (he's really hit rock bottom since he started dealing in marriages instead of souls).

      --David

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    9. THE ADVENTURES OF AUNT MAY IN THE AFTERLIFE. Now there's a min-series I can get behind, David!

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  10. Speaking of a series we can get behind, DC has just announced a digital first comic continuing the adventures of Adam West's Batman!

    http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2013/03/dc-to-launch-digital-first-batman-comic-based-on-classic-tv-show/

    It might be the only place fans can go now where Robins aren't dropping left and right!

    --David

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    1. Just read about that, David. Sounds like a LOT of fun.

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  11. To be fair Dematties, one could look at 60's Marvel in the era context and say those aren't really superhero stories. Fantastic Four had a rock monster, public identities, and no real rouges gallery... just adventures. Hulk was more in the spirit of 50's b-movie. Thor started out superheroy but became more sword and sorcery and space opera as Lee and Kirby pushed forward. Nick Fury was espionage. Spider-man seems like some sly indie movie about superheroes than the actual superhero archetype. One might say books like Man-thing, Master of Kung fu, Deathlok, and Dracula (as well as many more) took the super hero/villain idea and exploded it out a bit more. The New Gods I certainly see some parallels, though I never really thought of them as superhero comics. After all is James Bond that much less of a superhero than Batman? Isn't Tomb of Dracula a story of people going after a supernatural villain? The point is the lines have blurred on this point for such a long time it is hard to tell where one genre starts and the other begins in comics... and that is a good thing.

    Also Dr. Strange, Namor, and Silver Surfer are maybe the least superhero like characters Lee ever gave life to in the 60's. well, Bill Everett in the 30's in Namor's case.

    I'm just hoping you have had long enough to digest my Watch-70's analysis that you can properly tear me a new one for daring to not kneel down and pray to Alan Moore.

    David: I agree with M.J. and Ben (come on Dematteis pitch new tales of the Spider-kerouac to Marvel already) but Ned Leeds as Hobgoblin? Since Stern always planned on it being Kingsley I hope it never changes, yo. (yo: it's's how the kids talk)


    Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
    Jack


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  12. wait forgot. Just to be clear, I started reading comics after the 70's, but through back issues I really came to appreciate it. And ^0's Marvel can never be beat in my mind. Just saying, it isn't only the era that hooks you that you feel devotion to.



    Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
    Jack

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    1. Stan and Jack (Kirby, not you) certainly redefined the superhero...and stretched the boundaries of the term...but those guys called 'em superheroes, so I'll do the same. That said: point taken!

      Racing a deadline and getting ready for WonderCon, so I've got to run.

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    2. Jack,

      Re: Hobgoblin. I'm probably in the minority here, but the idea of Roderick Kingsley as Hobby never excited me. It was actually something of a dud compared to a longtime member of Pete's supporting cast tweaking Norman's legacy. I honestly don't think Stern ever built up Roderick enough to make him a credible choice. It just came out of left field and felt like a cheat.

      I'm sure he had plans to move Roddy to the forefront but they never came to pass. So when I read HOBGOBLIN LIVES, I was like, "Roderick Who?" I also like DeFalco's idea that Ned Leeds would be The Rose and Richard Fisk the Hobgoblin. They were better supporting characters than Roderick!

      Been reading some more TOMB OF DRACULA. It occurs to me how 70s supernatural tales were such a brilliant blend of stories that move the protagonist's tale forward and ones that focus on how other characters react to him/her/it. There's a David Kraft TOD tale entitled "The Art of Dying" and it's great because it's more about how Dracula impacts one man's life than the dark prince's own story.

      Best,

      David

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    3. For some reason Ned Leeds always seemed a little to close to the Green Goblin for me. I don't know why other than the connection to Peter Parker then Norman Osborn also had. But really, I always found the big reveal of his identity a bit... underwhelming. All that build up and to to have it revealed like that, it just didn't sit right (and I did like that issue by the way).

      The first Man-Thing issue I bought was, "A Book Burns in Citrusville." I was a teenager, and had already heard quite a bit of word of mouth about how high the quality of the series was. I was blown away. After rereading it years later, I still think that it is a classic that should be counted among the best of the character, and possibly the best of the company. And Man-Thing (per usual) was a bit player. I remember reading about one Marvel horror writer of the decade (I don't remember who) that they were not familiar with the genre. This may account for why stories took such interesting turns, trying to make an assignment you weren't comfortable in work.

      Dematteis: Well, no pressure on time, but as soon as things calm down I expect to be fully torn apart by your the razor sharp blade of your figurative pen, for m,y non-conventional views. You mention Len Wein being next to you above. He was a big name ion the 70's and editor on Watchmen, I'm sure he can help load up your cannon of viciousness. I look forward to the shattered self esteem you bring my way.

      Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
      Jack

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    4. "A Book Burns In Citrusville" was an AMAZING story, Jack. That said, I think my favorite Gerber MAN-THING stories were the clown story with Mike Ploog and "The Kid's Night Out." Brilliant stuff.

      And now...to Anaheim!

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    5. Kids Night is great, A Candle for Saint Cloud is another one I think is tops, but one could say A Book Burns IN Citrusville is a continuation of "Kids Night Out." The point is I don't want to have to choose between the two.


      Have fun in Anahiem.

      Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
      Jack

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    6. Jack,

      I think the way the Ned Leeds reveal played out was a massive disappointment. I mean, killing the Hobgoblin in a one-shot that I never read! And then revealing him as Hobby AFTER HE'S DEAD?! Not cool, Marvel. Not cool. But apparently everyone was playing the hand they were dealt after Stern left ASM and took the secret of Hobby with him!

      I think Stern did a terrific job cleaning up the continuity in his HOBGOBLIN LIVES mini, even if I was scratching my head trying to remember who Roderick Kingsley was.

      It's funny because there's this trend with Spider-Man where so many of his villains are personally connected to Peter Parker. I mean, eventually they had to run out of friends and family from the Lee/Ditko days! (I guess the kid from AF 15 who liked horror movies could turn into a monster or something!)

      On a different note, I've started reading the digital LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHT series, and really enjoy it. Basically there's no continuity, it's just writers telling the story they want to tell.

      Great stuff! And JMD...isn't it about time we got another Batman story from you? It's conceivable you could do a GOING SANE followup in that format! I know you've got the continuity free Supes story coming up, which I'm really looking forward to...

      Best,

      David

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    7. The book burning was brilliant, too! Hell, it was ALL brilliant.

      In Anaheim now and ready for sleep after a long day of traveling...

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    8. I'm up for a digital Batman, David: all they have to do is ask!

      Delete
    9. Damn it Dematteis! Now I want to dig out my Man-Thing comics and re-read all of them. Though I will say that It is somewhat hard to make the break since "A Book Burns in Citrusville" deals directly with the fallout of Kids Night Out." Of course the end by the back half of the series it was all running into itself... in the best possible way.

      The online Legends of the Dark Knight is a bit uneven. Personally, I refuse to do the online jive for as long as I can, I instead have been picking up the printed versions. A few of the stories have been pretty good. 1 or two were bad... but mostly I remember them as being just okay. The book needs to be more aware of itself and its potential. The fact is the original LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHT, was so good was because it was designed to be and had a higher standard than most mainstream comics of the time.

      I always thought it would be cool iof marvel took the basic idea of Legends of the Dark Knight and Batman: Black and White (which is somewhat more like what the modern Legends is like) and combined it with its own history of daring black and white magazines. With this and the rule that "it only has to be good and true to the character," the atmosphere and more lax rules of the old b&w magazines, the high standard and more varied story types of the original Legends of the Dark KNight, plus the non-cannon basis of BAtman Black and White could lead to something great. With the entire pantheon of Marvel characters, from Captain America to Man-Thing from Son of Satan to to iron man and Rick Jones, this could be the Creepy of Superheroes. RUN WITH IT DEMATTEIS, QUICK!


      Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
      Jack

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    10. Only place I'm running today, Jack, is to the convention center. (But it's a cool idea!)

      Delete
    11. It would be a cool idea for Marvel to run with...though for some reason, DC's characters seem to fit better into the 'continuity free' format. I don't know why that is, except that they always feel bigger than any one universe or interpretation. The "S" shield means so many different things all at once, you know? Whereas Peter Parker's story is what it is because of everything that came before. I always find it much easier to conceive of a Batman or Superman story with no continuity trappings than a Spider-Man or Captain America one.

      I've only read a few of the LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHT digital series so far, but I tend to disagree. But even if the quality is wildly variable, it still speaks to the idea of 'disposable' entertainment. One story might stick where another falls flat. But they keep cranking these stories out at 99 cents a pop and it works for me.

      I find myself enjoying them a lot more than any of the 'in continuity' Batman stuff I've read of late.

      --David

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    12. I think you're going to enjoy the new digital SUPERMAN series, David!

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    13. I suspect you're right! I've been pumped about this since it was first announced. I feel a lot more excited about these continuity free Batman and Superman stories than their mainstream counterparts. So naturally I'm pleased that digital has made the anthology a viable format again. Especially psyched to see what you've got in store for the Last Son of Krypton!


      --David

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  13. I think part of the reason DC seems to make it work better is both the iconic nature of the characters (whereas MArvel are more everyday like)and also th shifting interpretations over the years. Adam West and Frank Miller had widely differant batman style, but both are right so that makes a whole playground of ideas in between.

    I stand by Marvel however because of a series from tjhe late 90's called "Marvel Shadows adn Light'" or some such thing. I found it in the back issue bin for a dollar. I thought it was very good. But the complete departure from events and continuity let the unique humanity shine. The pieces where all character driven. That fits MArvel like a glove, especially since if you think about it out of continuity would have to be all about the character to explain who they are, especially if is something like "middle aged Steve Rogers torn between duty and personal views as he finds his place in the Vietnam era," or "The Peter Parker's last hour on Earth." The instant recognizablity isn't there, and that hurts, but the character is so well defined you can really get into what they would be thinking in these situations.

    This would also be a place to highlight old writers and artists who want to write characters, but don't want to deal with the possibility of repercussions, and to give a try out for new talent.

    If only Dematteis was in a place where Comic creators where gathering. toobad. Oh, I kid... mostly.

    David: The mini series Spider-man vs. Wolverine, here Ned Leeds dies is actually pretty good. I would recommend it. It is a departure from typical Spidey fare, but in a good way.

    Dematteis: Have fun in Anahiem. That is not a suggestion!

    Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
    Jack

    http://lisamarr.org/press/downloads/6_Lisa_Marr-UnemplymentLine.mp3

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_k5Aw5YL2E

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    Replies
    1. Here's a breakdown of the panel on Icons:

      http://comicsbeat.com/on-the-scene-wondercon-2013-what-makes-an-icon-with-nocenti-de-matteis-mahnke-slott-waid/

      Sounds like fun. Not surprisingly, I'm very much agreed with your philosophy of depth as opposed to change and "The Big Why." (I'm also a fan of the Big 'Why Not?')

      And Waid's crazy: Green Lantern is still an awesome name, icon or not!

      And I love Slott's idea for a Superman car titled the "Ford Tarus of Solitude." That could work.

      --David

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    2. That was actually one of the best panels I've ever been on, David. It was a fascinating conversation.

      I'll have a WonderCon wrap-up post later in the week. Right now I'm trying to regenerate all my convention-fried brain cells.

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  14. Well Dematteis, I'm glad you enjoyed yourself. You're welcome for me suggesting it. Just think what it would be like if I hadn't said anything.

    A Quick question, does there really need to be a panel about keeping true to origins and moving ahead? I mean I thought that was part of the reason why Marvel and DC worked, there origins were more or less eternal. No offense to you, you understand, or even the panel itself, just wondering.

    I like to think you mentioned some of mine and David's points at the 70's panel. though I am sure you didn't I just like to think so. You could have been the biggest shot at the panel if yopu only would have taken advantage of this braintrust you gave.

    I look forward to reading your views on my previous post and links, when you get a chance.

    Just remember, just because the con is over doesn't mean you should stop having fun... you're welcome.

    Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
    Jack

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    Replies
    1. As I mentioned to David, Jack, it was an amazing panel. Just trying to work out what makes a character iconic...which ones are and aren't...is something we could talk about for hours. And, in fact, it was the first time I was ever on a panel and kept discussing the topic with people, on and off, for hours afterwards. Of course it helped that we had folks like Mark Waid, Ann Nocenti, Dan Slott and Dough Mahnke up there to bounce these ideas around

      And I'll do my best to keep having fun. Thanks!

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    2. So,. the title was somewhat misleading. I thought it would be about some sort of struggle with modern writing and old origins. As if it were difficult to do. Glad to hear that wasn't the case.

      How did the 70's panel go? I'm sure someone recorded both. The trick is just for me, and any other interested parties, finding them on the line.

      Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
      Jack

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    3. The 70's panel was fun, but it didn't get into what I, as a 70's reader, really wanted to hear: stories of what it was like for guys like Len and Marv to be working at Marvel and DC in that era where all the chains were off and they were free to create in new, and wildly imaginative, ways. But, still, it was a good time. If we'd had another hour, I'm sure we would have gotten to it!

      Delete
    4. That is a drag. That's the panel that sounded most interesting, though admittedly that may have been largely influenced by the discussion the three of us had here. Take that Wonder Con!


      I just read the link David put up (thanks by the way) and I would like to way in on the Wonder Woman issue, if that is okay:

      First, let me say as a Marvel guy first, I was never that big into a lot of DC chractes until recently. I always preferred Jonah Hex, Spectre, Starman, Green Arrow and Aquaman to many of the other bigger name DC characters. The one excepton was Batman who I always loved... okay and Green Lantern. But out side Golden age stories, and the ocassional one-shot or mini series, Superman never got much love from me. And Wonder Woman never grabbed me either. So, I am coming at this as an outsider.

      I think firstly, the male dominated industry is only partially to blame, and not in the traditional way. The fact is male have trouble writing female characters for long stretches, at least as the view point character. And that is in all mediums. An occasional story sure, but for a long time... then it becomes tricky. The same is true for female writers and male characters (yes Nocenti is an exception, but even she peppered in quite a few non DD told stories, nd seemed a bit more of the narrator) How many times have you seen a program on television where a woman explains men and you say to yourself, that really doesn't sound like me? That is why writers tend to be more of a storyteller with the opposite gender than getting inside their heads. Gender does determine thinking at times, and that is a very intimate thing.

      So why not do that, separate and focus more on the story? Well, politics maybe. (I have never written a female oriented comic book for a major company) I think that perhaps putting a female charcer through the wringer too much in a serialized medium sort of makes a writer worry if they will be seen as just beating up on a strong female character. And sometimes they are accused of that. And often that isn't fair. That is just what you do in good storytelling.

      Why not a female writer? In modern times female writers on female characters have a fatal flaw in style. They tend to feel a need to state the female character is just as good as men. That's a great idea, except when you feel a need to point it out over and over gain, especially without subtlety. Now not all female writers do this, not by a long shot. It is more with those coming into the field recently. or semi-recently. Why not use an established writer of the female persuasion. They may have I don't know. They should.

      Also story structure with Wonder Woman is wonky. Batman and Super man have had long histories of careful planning for good and bad over a long period. Lesser known DC's haven't had that type of care to they have been treated more experimentally, and with lesser known villains often they get very character driven. And Supes and Bats had that happen too with newer writers wanting to flesh them out and drive the classic 57 T-bird on a dirt road and impress his friends. Wonder Woman however is in a strange nexus, she seems to have gotten the worst of bot those worlds.

      Just theories, not a WW reader, and there are of course exceptions to all things I stated.

      Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
      Jack

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    5. There have been some superb interpretations of WW over the years—George Perez and Phil Jimenez, to name two; and I've heard great things about Brian Azzarello's current run—so it's not as if the character has been constantly mishandled. But something hasn't clicked in that "resonates in the collective consciousness" way. Perhaps because the character has been revised and revamped too many times for one definitive version to stick?

      I'd bet the most popular interpretation of WW is Linda Carter's TV version. That's the Wonder Woman most people know.

      Delete
    6. I was not trying to imply that it has never been done well, just what some hiccups might be. Why issues keep coming up, not why she is always bad.

      The revision thing though? Donna Troy (Her sidekick) has been revised even more times, and I like just fine, and has probably just as strong if not stronger fanbase.

      But you are glossing over the bigger point I made. This site has better discussions about the 70's than a professional comic show. Also that guacamole is superior to sour cream, that was the major point... and it sort of hurts no one saw that. Speaking of which, I have a very interesting theory on Englehart and the Falcon.

      Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
      Jack

      http://lisamarr.org/press/downloads/6_Lisa_Marr-UnemplymentLine.mp3

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_k5Aw5YL2E

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    7. I unfortunately am allergic to guacamole.

      Goodwill and hipness heading back your way...!

      Delete
    8. So, that's why you didn't get it.

      Now, my Englehart-falcon theory... which no one cares about:

      So, at the end of Englehart's run it is revealed Sam Wilson was a criminal, not only that, but a very stereotypical black criminal. Why is this? He had shown the falcon being competent, and intellegent, and in that same story had cap's old flame start a new life with Gabe Jones, creating one of if not the first inter-racial relationship in comics. So, clearly Englehart was not racist. ut most people seem to sigh at this scene however.

      Some have theorized that it came from little experience with black people. And while I don't know of Englehart's childhood, I believe that may be an accurate description of it. However, at the time he was living in New York and working at the Marvel offices. I'm going to guess in the years since he moed to the big apple he had encountered black people.

      Some say this may have been editorial mandate, trying to cash in on the blaxploitation genre. While from what I understand is possible I doubt it

      The fact is giving Falc a shady past never seems to be the problem It seems to be how he was portrayed in the flashback. As a very stereotypical flamboyant scam artist that almost resembles the stereotypical pimp. I think that was the point. That entire story was allegory. Nixon being a supervillian. The secret Empire, even choosing Cap's new identity Nomad. representing the feeling of wandering spiritually in the wake of Watergate. Why wouldn't Falcon's secret histry be part of that? By the 1970's mopre and mopre Americans were not shocked to see black people on their block. Wites and Blacks had been serving in the military for almost 25 years by that point. ANd while Black people had not gained full acceptance and racism still did (and does) exist it was becoming increasingly less institutionalized. Black people and white people living, working and hanging around together was more common than ever before. So what does this have to do with Sam Wilson? Well, I think the point is that for a long while many whites saw blacks as criminals and stereotypes, enter snap Wilson. Then he becomes the falcon, and realizes that is also his true personality despite the means he got there. representing the change in society that was occurring. From criminal stereotype to criminally underrated superhero. Just more allegory representing the changing times.\

      Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
      Jack

      http://lisamarr.org/press/downloads/6_Lisa_Marr-UnemplymentLine.mp3

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_k5Aw5YL2E

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    9. I actually wrote a three part Sam Wilson back up during my CAP run that addressed this issue head on, dealing with the traumas that pushed Sam into the "Snap" persona. It was called "Snapping" and it ran in CAPTAIN AMERICA #s 276—278. You could track those issues down for a song, I'm sure. Give it a read, Jack, and let me know what you think.

      A little ore info here:
      http://www.mycomicshop.com/search?q=%22J.M.%20DeMatteis%22&qloc=N&TID=80191

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    10. Guacamole allergy? Stan Lee could have a blast with a character like you.

      "Her favorite food is Mexican? How can I tell the woman I love that even though I can shape or destroy worlds with the power of my mind, I'm still allergic to guacamole?"

      Stay tuned,true believers, for a story we could only call, "I'd Love To Stay for Dinner But Avocodago!"

      --David

      --David

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    11. Ah yes... issue 46 of "To PRODUCE a Romance..." Truly one of Lee and Romita's best. (please say you get the joke)


      Speaking of which Joke's on you Dematteis I already have those issues. I just have to reread them. And I will.

      I wouldn't mind knowing what was in that fan letter that mycomicshop.com says you wrote in an earlier issue.

      Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
      Jack

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    12. When I was younger (so much younger than today) I wrote LOTS of letters to Marvel, but I can't say I recall that one.

      Let me know what you think of "Snapping" when you reread it, Jack!

      Delete
  15. Also, there was a very interesting story 10 or so years back in "Captain America and the Falcon," written by Christopher Priest where the Snap persona started coming back up. It was an interesting story, that I think never got the resolution that was envisioned. Priest really is underrated, as was Owsley.

    Just saying.

    Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
    Jack

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    Replies
    1. Not familiar with that story, Jack. Fun fact: Owlsey AKA Priest was the original editor of KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT before Jim Salicrup took over.

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    2. I see what you are saying... Owsley stole the idea from you and then changed his name to try and escape a lawsuit. Well, that is a pretty hefty claim to lay against someone.

      However, it is an interesting story, next time you find yourself in the Marvel morgue. It takes place over several story arcs, including one that depicts what a modern Captain America would be like. The relationship between Sam and Steve is done very well, if memory serves. Including the idea of what happens when the reemerging Snap personality causes Falc to carry a gun, big no-no for CAp. It's funny, I usually enjoy Priest/Owsley's work, I don't know why he has never been a recurring name.

      Snapped: I can't wait to read it again, but while Captain America is one of the few series I have in any type of order (or even together)I had to do some rearranging a month or so, for possible snow melting related flooding, which never occured. So my comics are a bit difficult to find specifics in . I should be able to this weekend, or in the near future any way.

      You didn't save your letter comics? I would have. Oh well different strokes and all that. It would be neat to see into the mind of a young Marc Dematteis... to see just where the evil hippie spirit took control and held your mind hostage.

      Wishing you nothing, but goodwill and hipness from here to the stars,
      Jack

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    3. I'd love to have those letters NOW, Jack. Sorry I tossed them back in the day. There were quite a few so I don't think I could even remember them all, let alone track them down. Oh, well...such is life. A few of them have popped on line over the years.

      Good luck finding "Snapping"!

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